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guest100718
Guest
Who else's fault could they have been?
Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?
- Thread starter JohnnyDee
- Start date
Alex1975
Tour Winner
If his 6 iron was 3* flat and he requires 3* up......
Though I guess it would still be his fault as he was not wise enough to have checked they were a good fit for him...
Lazkir
Head Pro
The point I'm making is that as human beings we tend to look for excuses for our failings. By taking away any doubt regarding the clubs, we then have to accept that we are responsible and therefore have to address the problem in a different way.
How often have I read on here about lessons being far more effective than new gear? It's a similar thing to me, remove any doubt about it being the clubs at fault and we are forced to accept that we need to improve our technique rather than the equipment.
jamielaing
Q-School Graduate
I can't believe this is even a question on here to be honest, never mind the fact that everyone is arguing about it!
Am I going to go from a 12 handicap to scratch in a year due to custom clubs? NO
Is a 200 yard hitter going to get 320+ with custom fit? NO
Is my new putter going to make me nail 50 footers every time? NO
What custom does do however is tell you the things you didn't know. My clubs were off the rack. I'd had them since I was 14 and returned to golf at 28. (This is where everyone will say that these clubs obviously didn't suit me!) I had no idea what I should be using other than I probably needed still shafts. I got told all about lie angles, length of shaft etc etc. I also need x-stiff. If I had gone in and gone off the rack I would have disregarded x-stiff completely. Also I need jumbo grips, would never have considered this and to be honest this has made a massive difference to my game!
A friend of mine went to be fitted and thought he needed regular shafts. He couldn't believe it when stiff was suggested. He's nailing the driver perfectly now.
In the days where we are now paying £700 for a set of irons, why not pay the extra £50 to get these things checked? Or god forbid, go to AG where they will at least give you the correct measurements for a static fitting for free.
If you don't have custom clubs and are hitting the ball well and have no inclination to get new clubs, don't. They will not make you Dustin Johnson. If however you are wanting new clubs for whatever reason why not?
Realistically we all have an idea of what will work and what will not for us, custom gives us a hand. I have still bought second hand following this. Guess what, all of them off the rack, all of them sold on or altered to suit me. Custom helps.
Am I going to go from a 12 handicap to scratch in a year due to custom clubs? NO
Is a 200 yard hitter going to get 320+ with custom fit? NO
Is my new putter going to make me nail 50 footers every time? NO
What custom does do however is tell you the things you didn't know. My clubs were off the rack. I'd had them since I was 14 and returned to golf at 28. (This is where everyone will say that these clubs obviously didn't suit me!) I had no idea what I should be using other than I probably needed still shafts. I got told all about lie angles, length of shaft etc etc. I also need x-stiff. If I had gone in and gone off the rack I would have disregarded x-stiff completely. Also I need jumbo grips, would never have considered this and to be honest this has made a massive difference to my game!
A friend of mine went to be fitted and thought he needed regular shafts. He couldn't believe it when stiff was suggested. He's nailing the driver perfectly now.
In the days where we are now paying £700 for a set of irons, why not pay the extra £50 to get these things checked? Or god forbid, go to AG where they will at least give you the correct measurements for a static fitting for free.
If you don't have custom clubs and are hitting the ball well and have no inclination to get new clubs, don't. They will not make you Dustin Johnson. If however you are wanting new clubs for whatever reason why not?
Realistically we all have an idea of what will work and what will not for us, custom gives us a hand. I have still bought second hand following this. Guess what, all of them off the rack, all of them sold on or altered to suit me. Custom helps.
Wildrover
Tour Rookie
10 grand for a CF, I'm sure PXG won't even charge that.
I stand by what I wrote earlier having done CF for a few years now. Seen many a 6ft5 or so guy walk in with a standard length set who hit many thins/tops, amazing what an extra inch can do (oooh matron).
Lie angle is crucial, you can have a great swing but if your lie angle is off you won't get the benefits of it.
If you don't believe in CF then are you saying that a 6ft6 25 year old guy playing off 2 should buy the same set as a 5ft4 55 year old off 23 straight off the shelf?
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Alex1975
Tour Winner
Dont feed the troll...
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guest100718
Guest
Go for it. My clubs are custom fit. I just think the benefit if any is massively over stated
Alex1975
Tour Winner
I don't think it is, I just think its stated. I have not read everything but I bet there is no post saying "it changed my game to a HUGE degree". I think its more like "why would you not have the thing that fits you.
Again... I am not sure everyone is talking about the same thing when they say "custom fitting"... there is quite a lot that can be done that even the best OEMs don't bother with...
I think thats where the mistake is. It seems like a sensible statement. But relies on 1) there existing a definition of what fits you, golf club wise, and 2) even if there is such a thing, and you had it, that it would confer any benefit to your play.
At the moment, there is evidence for neither.
The snake oil reference of the OP is very apt : it is the selling of a solution without any proof that the solution has any clear benefit or proof of being effective; involves a "well, at least try it and see for yourself" type sales pitch, aimed towards making the sale rather than justifying the claims for it; has a "is not the full solution, and may not help in all cases" type get out to ensure against those who will claim they gained no benefit; is sold by what can genuinely be termed 'quacks', who have no particular scientific, or real understanding of what they are trying to sell, and are just jumping on a bandwagon; doesnt really cost that much for a single 'dose' so is unlikely to be chased for allegations of fraud or non-delivery; has an element of the mysterious or dazzle of science (a power of computer and measurement technology, the equivalent of the magic potion and ingredients of the snake oil concoction).
In their defence, I feel club fitters are not out and out conscious frauds, but are as deluded as their customers and do believe they are selling a genuine solution - despite no evidence to back it up.
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bobmac
Major Champion
Interesting
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guest100718
Guest
Do a Google search on custom fitting and the claims made are staggering. . One bloke saying you can expect to knock 3 to 7 shots off overnight ...
Alex1975
Tour Winner
"Ahhh, you mustnt be using the right snake oil.....what you need is that one"
Alex1975
Tour Winner
Oh I get it now.... your right, good point well made... Ill just pick something generic up, it will be just as good... all us humans are the same size and create the same speed and the like... I am glad your here to have made such well thought out points and so eloquently... Your a fine addition to the forum and I shall stop thinking for myself and just ask you going forwards... dumbass....
Alex1975
Tour Winner
Remind me... what is the first thing that happens when you arrive at your ski resort and you go to collect your ski hire... Oh ye, they measure you and give you ski`s that are the right size for you.. of and those polls, any will do wont they?
Robster59
Tour Rookie
For my two pennorth. I've never been fitted and played for the last 8-9 years with a set of Mizuno MX-900 irons bought off the shelf. Great clubs, won't hear a word against them. Got me down from 20 to 12.
However, I have never been fitted and so thought when it came to change them I would get fitted.
I went to the Callaway fitting at St Andrews and we tried my Mizuno's against various Callaway irons with different shafts.
It was all shown on trackman as well as me feeling from my own swing, result and general feel as to which was best for me.
The end result?
Irons - Callaway XR (5-PW) (Mizuno 3-PW)
Shaft - UST Recoil graphite 65g weight (Mizuno TT Lite at circa 109g)
Lie - 2 deg flat (vs Mizuno standard lie)
The trackman confirmed what my own personal thoughts surmised. The shots with the new setting where longer (as the lofts are jacked up that's no surprise) and but more importantly had a much tighter dispersion.
Also the lighter shaft made them easier to hit and I am finding that I am scoring more consistently now than I was with the Mizuno's.
For me, I'm delighted with my fitting experience and genuinely feel that it has been of a benefit. What it also meant that when I ordered two new wedges I could also specify them 2 deg flat and with a lighter shaft.
It also explained why I struggle with hybrids as they don't tend to suit someone with the flatter swing and they are not as adjustable. Actually I don't need one now as the 23 deg loft on my 5 iron is close enough to the 20 deg loft on my fairway wood.
However, I have never been fitted and so thought when it came to change them I would get fitted.
I went to the Callaway fitting at St Andrews and we tried my Mizuno's against various Callaway irons with different shafts.
It was all shown on trackman as well as me feeling from my own swing, result and general feel as to which was best for me.
The end result?
Irons - Callaway XR (5-PW) (Mizuno 3-PW)
Shaft - UST Recoil graphite 65g weight (Mizuno TT Lite at circa 109g)
Lie - 2 deg flat (vs Mizuno standard lie)
The trackman confirmed what my own personal thoughts surmised. The shots with the new setting where longer (as the lofts are jacked up that's no surprise) and but more importantly had a much tighter dispersion.
Also the lighter shaft made them easier to hit and I am finding that I am scoring more consistently now than I was with the Mizuno's.
For me, I'm delighted with my fitting experience and genuinely feel that it has been of a benefit. What it also meant that when I ordered two new wedges I could also specify them 2 deg flat and with a lighter shaft.
It also explained why I struggle with hybrids as they don't tend to suit someone with the flatter swing and they are not as adjustable. Actually I don't need one now as the 23 deg loft on my 5 iron is close enough to the 20 deg loft on my fairway wood.
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guest100718
Guest
Me personally would need to learn to ski first. And good to see another stupid analogy.
woody69
Journeyman Pro
Whilst I completely agree with you, if you are going to call someone a "dumbass" you really need to get "your" and "you're" right. I'm sorry, I don't know why it bothers me, it just does...
Other than that, I am right behind you. Go get 'em tiger!
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
My last 3 sets of irons have had some element of custom fitting. Some full on, some just length, loft and lie. It does make them more comfortable to swing.
I'm borderline stiff / regular, and as long as the shaft isn't light, can pretty much play the same rubbish golf with any make or model of shaft. I don't do light shafts though.
For me the length is important, and so should the lie angle be. But it's not so much so.
My x blades are the right length, but I've not had the lie angles adjusted yet. They are stupidly flat at present. At a guess, about 4 degrees away from what i need. If I swing normally, they block out to the right. So I just play for more draw, and they work just fine.
When I am less lazy, I will get them set up properly, and then hook the heck out of them.
I might be a bit more fussy if my iron play was better though.
I'm borderline stiff / regular, and as long as the shaft isn't light, can pretty much play the same rubbish golf with any make or model of shaft. I don't do light shafts though.
For me the length is important, and so should the lie angle be. But it's not so much so.
My x blades are the right length, but I've not had the lie angles adjusted yet. They are stupidly flat at present. At a guess, about 4 degrees away from what i need. If I swing normally, they block out to the right. So I just play for more draw, and they work just fine.
When I am less lazy, I will get them set up properly, and then hook the heck out of them.
I might be a bit more fussy if my iron play was better though.
3565
Journeyman Pro
Yep we're all stupid and not got a clue what we're talking about in the book of stupidness......
