Club Fittings - science in action or snake oil for sale?

[Alucard]

One sized golf clubs cannot possibly fit everybody from a 4'10" woman to a 6'10" man! Your clubs should at least be the correct length and lie angle for your body measurements and proportions. I also think that grip size is important.

Women use different clubs made for their sex and you would be surprised how many people standard clubs will suit once the swing is on the correct plane.
Fittings are ok for those that feel they need them but even the tallest pros are not fit in massively upright lies 1 or 2 degrees tops and many play flatter lies..

 

[SXRORY]

I have always used eBay for my irons. Choosing to get nice gear at an affordable price, working on the principle I will find a way to hit them. Generally it's worked out ok. I did however get some mizuno mp52's with some project x 6.0's, think it was the shafts they were like rock. Anyway did not happen for me. Lost distance and was pulling everything. Did give them a good go too, half a season. Now using ap2 which are not going anywhere for a good while. So I think a fitting does work if you want to spend that kind of money, As I would like to think I would not have ended up with the mizunos. It's just I been doing my own fittings of sorts lol at a lower price point.

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

... It's just I been doing my own fittings of sorts lol at a lower price point.

🙂
Exactly! Every time we try a club and reject it because of feel or flight or whatever, we are using the principles of fitting.
The more important it is that flight, grouping, spin etc are to us, the greater detail we need when making a choice.
Which (I think has been said before..) is why pros use it. BECAUSE IT WORKS!!!
The question then is 'How much do amateurs need it?'
Answer (as always). 'As much as they want'
If an amateur wants the same putter as a pro - he can buy it.
If an amateur wants a 9.5 degree driver that he can't use, because that's what his fave player uses - he can buy it.
Etc. Etc. Et-bloody-c.
Ad infinitum.
Fitting works. With different success for different people. And good luck to each and every one of them.
But...
If I ever play with someone who has paid thousands for top quality fitted clubs and they are daft enough to let me win - you deserve to buy the drinks. I'm having a Hobgoblin on you right enough 😛

 

[guest100718]

25 pages and still going!

 

[Region3]

I had lessons back in 1991 and learned to swing a club and then over the next 24 years played around once or twice a year sometimes none, I have played less than 25 rounds of golf in my life since 1991.

My brother in law from the UK who plays every week, came to stay with us in Portugal earlier this year, we moved 7 years ago and I was rusty as I had just a couple of sessions on the driving range for years. He wanted to play the Alto Golf course.

I hit some good shots and plenty bad ones but I enjoyed it and decided that I was going to give it a proper go, so 3 months ago I began to practice as often as I can, in between looking after my racing pigeons and weight training and Wrestling training. lol

I booked a lesson or two with with the Pro and he gave me a good deal for on course training,if 3 people play 9 holes with him and after 3 games of 9 holes at Alto golf in Portimao near Alvor I was ready to try and shoot a score.

I was scored strictly 2 weeks ago on the Back 9 holes and shot 45 with 2 triple bogeys and last week I played the front nine and shot 43. with one triple bogey.
It is a par 72 championship standard course.

This week there was no 9 hole training game so I had a lesson on the range instead and I hope to be shooting 80 or less in the next 3 months and the Pro thinks this is a very good possibility. time will tell.

I am not able to join a club at the moment due to not being able to justify the expense, so I can not get an official HCP (in fact I already stated this on a thread I began, asking advice on HCPS)

As regards fitted clubs, I believe that once I am happy with my swing and it wont be changing any more (I am working on flattening it a bit more)

That a fitting wouldnt do any harm but I am a fan of the old style clubs lofts and lies.
I play 3 to PW, I can hit a 1 and a 2 iron but I find the 18 degree hybrid more versatile.
Things like grips I grip my own clubs as it took me 10 mins to figure out how to do it after watching a video on the web and my Ping Eye2 irons I just regripped with a length of string under the grip down the back of the grip.

I find this helps at the top of the backswing as on round grips the hand shape leaves a gap and if the bottom 3 fingers are too loose it can cause a fat shot.
Im off out now to hit the new (to me) 3 wood I just purchased and hopefully hit it well as if so it will shave a shot or two off my score.

Obviously I don't know what availability is like where you are, but you can buy grips with the bulge built in. I think they call them ribbed.

 

[3565]

Obviously I don't know what availability is like where you are, but you can buy grips with the bulge built in. I think they call them ribbed.

Hell, he might discover that drivers are made out of metal instead of old fashioned persimmon now!!! :rofl:

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

25 pages and still going!

Just wanna make sure you never need to splash out on a newspaper.
🤓🤔

 

[Oohmeoldbacksknackered]

Hell, he might discover that drivers are made out of metal instead of old fashioned persimmon now!!! :rofl:

I hit my longest ever drive with a persimmon driver.
God it went miles when you hit it clean.
Don't ask about the 99% that were even a whisker off-centre.
😊

 

[Alucard]

Hell, he might discover that drivers are made out of metal instead of old fashioned persimmon now!!! :rofl:

Lol, I actually have a laminated driver a Ping Eye 2 that I practice with sometimes, its a red dot as it used to be my fathers club so not the right dot for me according to the fitting chart but I hit it well and straight but not as far as the TM R7 otherwise I would game it..

Golf is huge here in Portugal there are 35 Golf courses in the tiny Algarve region alone 6 of them Championship standard and the course maintenance is second to none.

No problem getting equipment in Portugal and anyway on the internet you can get anything. The ribbed grips were not quite what I wanted so I did my own like in the good old days, they feel better in the hands.

Most grips in the UK used to be like this back in the day, the round grips idea came from the USA.

Its really easy anyway and fun and I think everyone should be able to re-grip their own clubs to whatever thickness they want or even put grip reminders in them should they wish to.

You just add tape wraps to thicken them or use one wrap as standard. Many put 2 or even 3 wraps on the short irons but use the 1 wrap on the long irons.
I chose midsize grips with 1 wrap for the full set.

I cut the old grips off and cleaned the club shaft then put my string in place down the back of the club shaft tagging it into place with the tape.

Next I used white spirit to wipe over the tape and put a tee in the hole in the grip top to keep the fluid inside it.

I filled the grip with white spirit and then after a few seconds I emptied the white spirit back in the bottle and removed the tee from the grip hole.

Then you will find that the grip will easily slide over the double sided sticky tape and you can finish the final positioning and then leave the club to stand for a few hours so the white spirit evaporates and your good to go.

You can use air compressors too like in the pro shop but the white spirit is easy and cheap.

 

[JakeWS]

I get fitted off my Pro I have lessons with, as I trust him and he will be the one teaching me to use the things, so that probably warrants his advice.

I just treated it like a free, very expensive lesson.

 

[Hendy]

All I can say is that I've been for a fair few fittings down the years and all, ALL, my best rounds have been with non-fitted clubs either purchased new off the shelf or 2nd name from eBay/Golf bidder.....

Same for me.

 

[Robster59]

At the end of the day, just go with what suits you. Since I've had my new fitted clubs I've been playing more consistent golf. The fitting cost me nothing, I got a discount on the irons and I genuinely feel more comfortable with them. Surely that's all that matters. If you achieve the same results with off the shelf clubs, that's great too.

 

[pendodave]

If there's one thing that this thread proves, it is that there is a complete absence of any usable data, verified by a third party, about how effective particular clubs are. In 26 pages there isn't a single number that can be used to support or refute the various arguments.

The whole industry seems to benefit from this state of affairs, but at the expense of all of us.

Luckily, golf isn't really that important, but it would be nice if there was some non-interested 3rd party producing numbers that were useful. The trouble is, as soon as there's a hint of a genuinely independent voice, they are immediately bought out by the golfing military-industrial complex (vis. advertising in mags and all the youtubers being made 'brand ambassadors' and provided with jollies etc).

 

[Alucard]

If there's one thing that this thread proves, it is that there is a complete absence of any usable data, verified by a third party, about how effective particular clubs are. In 26 pages there isn't a single number that can be used to support or refute the various arguments.

The whole industry seems to benefit from this state of affairs, but at the expense of all of us.

Luckily, golf isn't really that important, but it would be nice if there was some non-interested 3rd party producing numbers that were useful. The trouble is, as soon as there's a hint of a genuinely independent voice, they are immediately bought out by the golfing military-industrial complex (vis. advertising in mags and all the youtubers being made 'brand ambassadors' and provided with jollies etc).

I agree with you but surely it is the ones that are claiming fitting is the only way to go that must prove that it is the holy grail as some claim.

Proof is all over the web that Tall Pro tour golfers well over 6 feet tall do NOT use massively upright lie angles 1 or 2 degrees tops and many use standard or even flatter lie angles.
The era of the great ball strikers will show that lie angles are far flatter than the angles being fit for modern weekend golfers. The clubs are in Museums like say Ben Hogans etc and the proof is there.

Yet weekend hackers or newbies going for fittings are being fit into very upright lie angles to help them fight a slice and losing power in the smash factor, instead of being encouraged to work on their swing a little and being fit into a standard or even flatter lie that will be more versatile with swing mechanic changes.

Quick fix is never the best but if people want to spend their money on a fitting and they are happy with it then thats their choice but they may end up with clubs that will not allow them to develop their swing plane or attack angle.

I just do not agree with the people that claim silly comparisons of golf clubs to fitted suits or adjustable car seats etc to try to force or endorse the fitting ideals on everyone, just because they chose that route and want to reinforce their own beliefs.

 

[MadAdey]

I generally find the people that say you don't need to get fitted are normally 6' and under. I'm 6'3 with not particularly long arms for my size. If you check the ping chart, my wrist to floor measurement says I should be 6'6.

Can I play with standard clubs? Of course I can, but it feels uncomfortable as I feel like I'm bending over too much and I get steep on my backswing.

The only reason I'm a big believer in getting fitted is to find the correct shaft. I got fitted earlier in the year and I have now changed from a TTDG X-100 to a C-Taper Tour 120g stiff. Thanks to that I'm hitting my irons far more consistent than I was. If I hadn't have got fitted I would not have chose that shaft......

 

[Foxholer]

...
Yet weekend hackers or newbies going for fittings are being fit into very upright lie angles...

Have you some evidence of this?

...]a standard or even flatter lie that will be more versatile with swing mechanic changes.

or this?

And please explain how 'a standard or even flatter lie that will be more versatile with swing mechanic changes'! It may be more appropriate - and swing changes would be a point where lie would be assessed - but versatile? Twaddle! I do note that you ARE suggesting that they are (or do) get fit though!

The 'fitted suit' comparison is pretty appropriate! Not required; can add significantly to cost; can make a difference; is done purely on the current attributes - so if they change, then may need to be re-assessed!

Btw. What is this 'era of the great ball strikers'? There are plenty of great ball strikers around today - and there has been in every era!

Can you also provide evidence of claims that 'fitting is the only way to go' or 'that it is the holy grail as some claim.' I certainly haven't seen any realistic ones!

Bryson DuChambeau plays Cobras! He was gracious enough to let me swing his Edels a couple of years ago! He is an example of someone who MUST get fitted! But so was Moe Norman!

 

[Alucard]

Have you some evidence of this?



or this?

And please explain how 'a standard or even flatter lie that will be more versatile with swing mechanic changes'! It may be more appropriate - and swing changes would be a point where lie would be assessed - but versatile? Twaddle! I do note that you ARE suggesting that they are (or do) get fit though!



The 'fitted suit' comparison is pretty appropriate! Not required; can add significantly to cost; can make a difference; is done purely on the current attributes - so if they change, then may need to be re-assessed!

Btw. What is this 'era of the great ball strikers'? There are plenty of great ball strikers around today - and there has been in every era!

Can you also provide evidence of claims that 'fitting is the only way to go' or 'that it is the holy grail as some claim.' I certainly haven't seen any realistic ones!

Bryson DuChambeau plays Cobras! He was gracious enough to let me swing his Edels a couple of years ago! He is an example of someone who MUST get fitted! But so was Moe Norman!

There are people all over his thread going on about getting fit as the holy grail using stupid analogies about adjustable car seats and fitted suits, I laughed so hard my ribs hurt when I read them.

Whats with the silly girly yellow faces you keep adding to your posts????? it doesnt make them any more important you know, it would be better if you actually added some facts to them.
De Chambeau was playing Edel one length Irons same length as a 6 iron very recently , maybe he changed when he went pro.

Who cares who made the clubs lets not split hairs they are still same length clubs Cobra may be paying him more money to use them than Edel can afford.

Another Guy on tour Mat Dobyns (who plays right handed but puts left handed) at 5 feet 11 inches tall is also playing one length irons and his are Titleist CB irons all 35.5 inch long including his wedges and the lies are as very very flat he had a club maker at Petes Golf add appropriate weight to the clubs.

His clubs have weight added to the heads and are a totally different proposition to a normal fitting, he is a real talent unlike most weekend golfers.

Proof of golfers being fit into upright lies is all over the driving ranges and on the course if you dont walk around with your eyes shut. Proof of the lies of Pro Tour golfers and heights are all over the internet if you want to find them.

There are no real great ball strikers around today, like Nicklaus or Trevino or Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez many modern tour pros cant even draw or fade the ball consistently when they really need to something that the great ball strikers of yesteryear could do in their sleep.
Yet these modern day players have won majors.

Dont ask me to tell you who they are look and find out for yourself if your so interested. If you actually watch golf then you will know anyway.

Obviously a flatter lie is more versatile as it is not ridiculously loaded to be upright locking you into an un natural swing plane and flatter lies suit better golf swings, the Tour pros are using flatter lies its all over the internet if you dare look..

Anyway I finished with this thread because I have given you all the facts and they are all over the internet too so stop asking me to prove things that you can read for yourself.
We could go on and on forever you can if you like but i have better things to do.

For me personally I like the old clubs and the old lofts, I do not want to kid myself that I am hitting the ball further with a 7 iron that has a 9 stamped on it or having to fill my bag with wedges because the PW is 46 degrees or less or not carrying a 3 iron lol.
Each to their own, if you like fittings then good for you.

 

[Foxholer]

..
Anyway I finished with this thread...

:thup:

 

[3565]

There are people all over his thread going on about getting fit as the holy grail using stupid analogies about adjustable car seats and fitted suits, I laughed so hard my ribs hurt when I read them.

Whats with the silly girly yellow faces you keep adding to your posts????? it doesnt make them any more important you know, it would be better if you actually added some facts to them.
De Chambeau was playing Edel one length Irons same length as a 6 iron very recently , maybe he changed when he went pro.

Who cares who made the clubs lets not split hairs they are still same length clubs Cobra may be paying him more money to use them than Edel can afford.

Another Guy on tour Mat Dobyns (who plays right handed but puts left handed) at 5 feet 11 inches tall is also playing one length irons and his are Titleist CB irons all 35.5 inch long including his wedges and the lies are as very very flat he had a club maker at Petes Golf add appropriate weight to the clubs.

His clubs have weight added to the heads and are a totally different proposition to a normal fitting, he is a real talent unlike most weekend golfers.

Proof of golfers being fit into upright lies is all over the driving ranges and on the course if you dont walk around with your eyes shut. Proof of the lies of Pro Tour golfers and heights are all over the internet if you want to find them.

There are no real great ball strikers around today, like Nicklaus or Trevino or Hogan, Chi Chi Rodriguez many modern tour pros cant even draw or fade the ball consistently when they really need to something that the great ball strikers of yesteryear could do in their sleep.
Yet these modern day players have won majors.

Dont ask me to tell you who they are look and find out for yourself if your so interested. If you actually watch golf then you will know anyway.

Obviously a flatter lie is more versatile as it is not ridiculously loaded to be upright locking you into an un natural swing plane and flatter lies suit better golf swings, the Tour pros are using flatter lies its all over the internet if you dare look..

Anyway I finished with this thread because I have given you all the facts and they are all over the internet too so stop asking me to prove things that you can read for yourself.
We could go on and on forever you can if you like but i have better things to do.

For me personally I like the old clubs and the old lofts, I do not want to kid myself that I am hitting the ball further with a 7 iron that has a 9 stamped on it or having to fill my bag with wedges because the PW is 46 degrees or less or not carrying a 3 iron lol.
Each to their own, if you like fittings then good for you.

thank the Lord, after reading these posts about amateurs not really benefiting from custom fit clubs, whether it's lie angles, shaft lengths, shaft stiffness etc, I've decided to go buy oversized clothes and shoes cos fitted stuff just doesn't cut the mustard!

 

[Blue in Munich]

There are people all over his thread going on about getting fit as the holy grail using stupid analogies about adjustable car seats and fitted suits.

Obviously a flatter lie is more versatile as it is not ridiculously loaded to be upright locking you into an un natural swing plane and flatter lies suit better golf swings, the Tour pros are using flatter lies its all over the internet if you dare look..

Anyway I finished with this thread
We could go on and on forever you can if you like but i have better things to do.

Disappointing as I'll now have to live without ever knowing how flatter lies would help my 6' 7" frame swing in a more versatile manner, but I'm sure I'll live, especially after reading the tosh about Lee Trevino's lie angles.

:thup:

+1 :thup:

thank the Lord

+1