Chilcott Iraq Enquiry

[Jensen]

What about the weapons expert (can't remember his name) who was put under massive pressure to say there was WMD. Then supposedly commited suicide.
I think he was bumped off. Disgraceful

 

[Deleted member 15344]

What about the weapons expert (can't remember his name) who was put under massive pressure to say there was WMD. Then supposedly commited suicide.
I think he was bumped off. Disgraceful

That's heck of an accusation and not very factually correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

 

[Deleted member 1418]

Personally I think Blair should be held accountable for his actions. And Alastair Campbell - a horrible man.

Got to give Blair some credit on his 'performance' yesterday though - one hell of an actor!!

 

[Foxholer]

That's heck of an accusation and not very factually correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

I will never forget/forgive Blair for the way Dr Kelly was hounded by 'the machine' to such an extent that he committed suicide! I don't believe the conspiracy theories about revenge (or government) murder! The subsequent 'enquiry' referred to above was so narrow (that was that Blair's doing again) that it wasn't actually the enquiry that was called for! It did conclude, but only as an aside, what I saw as the major question - whether Campbell had influence over the wording ('sexed up') of JIC reports. For that, he must share considerable blame too!

As for the rest of Chilcott, it will take considerable analysis before drawing my conclusions, but I'm actually 'happy', in many areas, that Blair acted totally responsibly - if too much as a lapdog of US/Bush! The lack of an exit plan and some of the equipment/logistics issues were not really his fault imo!

I also cannot forgive Bush for authorising 'WMDs' (Depleted Uranium weaponry) either! The effect of these has been - and continues to be - a scandal of barbaric proportions!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I suspect Blair is quite okay with the enquiry. It states he didn't lie, he did not decieve. The whole decision making process may have been rubbish but at least it was honestly rubbish. He can rationalise that, as he tried to yesterday as part of being a leader and having to make decisions. I am not defending what happened but had it said he lied and covered up he would have been in far more trouble. As it stands he and a pile of MP's voted together and stand together.

 

[Deleted member 18588]

I will never forget/forgive Blair for the way Dr Kelly was hounded by 'the machine' to such an extent that he committed suicide! I don't believe the conspiracy theories about revenge (or government) murder! The subsequent 'enquiry' referred to above was so narrow (that was that Blair's doing again) that it wasn't actually the enquiry that was called for! It did conclude, but only as an aside, what I saw as the major question - whether Campbell had influence over the wording ('sexed up') of JIC reports. For that, he must share considerable blame too!

As for the rest of Chilcott, it will take considerable analysis before drawing my conclusions, but I'm actually 'happy', in many areas, that Blair acted totally responsibly - if too much as a lapdog of US/Bush! The lack of an exit plan and some of the equipment/logistics issues were not really his fault imo!

I also cannot forgive Bush for authorising 'WMDs' (Depleted Uranium weaponry) either! The effect of these has been - and continues to be - a scandal of barbaric proportions!

Strange as for me the two greatest failings were the lack of an exit strategy and sending our forces to war with inadequate and/or inappropriate equipment.

Was not Blair, as PM, responsible for these failings and as for his claim that the world is now a safer place , well that would be laughable were it not so serious.

Bush and Blair both ignored advice from military commanders on the ground on how to treat a post-Saddam Iraq thereby allowing a vacuum to be created which ISIS have exploited if not entirely filled.

No Government should ever go to war if they have no plan for the post conflict situation. It is totally irresponsible and leads only to further conflict.

 

[Fyldewhite]

I suspect Blair is quite okay with the enquiry. It states he didn't lie, he did not decieve. The whole decision making process may have been rubbish but at least it was honestly rubbish. He can rationalise that, as he tried to yesterday as part of being a leader and having to make decisions. I am not defending what happened but had it said he lied and covered up he would have been in far more trouble. As it stands he and a pile of MP's voted together and stand together.

I don't believe he did lie. Yes, he and others embellished things but it's naive to think that any politician wouldn't have done the same to ensure objectives that at the time he (and many others) believed in and thought were right for the country. Hindsight is wonderful. I can understand him saying in the same circumstances (post 9/11 with the now discredited evidence on the table) he would have done the same. I'm less convinced in his claim that despite everything the world is still a better place having gone to war. The press will crucify him though. The irony being that there are no bigger liars in this country than the press.

 

[Hobbit]

That's heck of an accusation and not very factually correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

Three things; the inquiry was set up with exceptional haste, i.e. one day after Dr Kelly was found dead... really?! That Lord Hutton's inference of what "sexed up" meant puts a very different slant to the report, and the conclusion of it from his version of "sexed up" is extremely biased. And finally, its a Wiki article that could have been written by anyone - who has a vested interest in it being slanted?

Was it suicide? Probably? Were the intelligence reports sexed up? Definitely, and that can include by omission as well as by addition. The JIC disregarded intelligence reports that suggested Suddam wasn't anything like the threat that some reported - guilty by deliberate omission! And proven afterwards to be accurate. Who decided to exclude the data? Why was it excluded?

 

[Hobbit]

I don't believe he did lie. Yes, he and others embellished things but it's naive to think that any politician wouldn't have done the same to ensure objectives that at the time he (and many others) believed in and thought were right for the country. Hindsight is wonderful. I can understand him saying in the same circumstances (post 9/11 with the now discredited evidence on the table) he would have done the same. I'm less convinced in his claim that despite everything the world is still a better place having gone to war. The press will crucify him though. The irony being that there are no bigger liars in this country than the press.

In some respects whether he lied or not is almost an irrelevance. To rewind a little, both Bush and him jumped in without UN approval. They both put themselves above the UN Security Council. Without UN approval it becomes an illegal war.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Without UN approval it becomes an illegal war.

And over to the lawyers..............

Great point from Metal Mickie about lack of exit strategy and crucially equipment. Soldiers get sent into conflict areas, that is their job. It is the govts job to protect them as best they can with the best eqt we can provide. Billions can be spent on Trident but we skimp on boots or critically in this instance, properly protected vehicles. The lack of correct equipment is appalling and people at the MoD should be held to account there. Chilcott admitted defeat in the end regarding his ability to dig out who was responsible in the MoD. I don't know if that means they closed ranks or simply he could not get through the mountain of beaucracy but either way people there should be ashamed.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The equipment we were issued early doors was shocking - all the equipment i took i went and bought myself

Boots - two pairs
Socks
Camelback
Sleeping Bag
Cam cot
Day Sack

Got UA heatgear tee shirts out there from the US BX

The US guys were all fully loaded up with the top kit - we were still using stuff that was General Issue in the 80's - boots that were bought for the Balkans conflict that crumbled in the desert

Even the comms kit was stuff from the 70/80's - thankfully being in the Tactical Comms we managed to acquire the up to date sat comms and deployable LAN and phone system

 

[Lord Tyrion]

LP - I've heard similar things from ex-servicemen, now retired, who I have worked with. The Yanks had everything, as it should be, but our set up was shameful. That applies through the past 30 odd years, not just recent conflicts. That is basic and really poor. The MoD really does seem to be a dinosaur that no one can quite get hold of and shake up.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That's heck of an accusation and not very factually correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

The result of the Kelly PM has a 70 year lock on it, I wonder why ?

 

[Blue in Munich]

That's heck of an accusation and not very factually correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

Reading through that link leads me to believe that Jensen was nearer to the truth than you were. The press widely criticised it as a whitewash and as Hobbit pointed out, it was convened with indecent haste.

 

[chrisd]

Ive just watched an episode of BBC's "Would I lie to you" I can see it now with Tony Blair "I once told the nation that Iraq could launch weapons of mass destruction in 45 minutes and they took me seriously" that blatant lie was true!