Solidthreeputt
New member
That’s pretty much the point I was making. The talent you mention (likes of Van Rooyen) won’t stay there too long.
Best Player never to win a Major debate
- Thread starter Grant85
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Val
Ryder Cup Winner
Stats ye say
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Deleted member 18588
Guest
So they have each finished in the Top 10 of 30.3% of the ET events in which they have played.
Montgomerie 626 events
Westwood 556 events
Comparative win %ages
Montgomerie 5%
Westwood 4.5%
Who is the better seems to be subjective as statistically there's not that much difference .
Certainly not enough to support a claim that one is twice the player.
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Grant85
Head Pro
Agree - very similar attributes as well in terms of being very accurate off the tee and decent iron players - perhaps not holing quite as many putts as some of their peers to make the difference in the biggest events.
It's incredible watching Monty back in the day at some of the bigger events... so many high pressure tee shots and he was in the centre of the middle of the fairway.
I've heard Steve Elkington mention on NLU podcast about a conversation he had with Monty when playing on the US College Golf circuit. Monty was going back to the UK and had an interview / likely guaranteed job with sports management firm, IMG. He said to Elk that he would like to play golf, but he just wasn't very good. Elkington basically told him to shelve that idea and go to the European Tour School and if he didn't get through, then go and work for IMG. 43 wins, 8 orders of merit, 9 Ryder Cups later... the rest is history.
garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
The 36hole match play match vs Monty at Wentworth story was the best.
D
Deleted member 21258
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garyinderry
Ryder Cup Winner
Tell more
Any linkys ?
Oh and hankys back
No laying up ep 204 with Steve elkington 48mins in. The way he tells it is fantastic.
Grant85
Head Pro
Absolutely. It wasn't the same gulf it is now where it's pretty much an automatic decision for anyone who can establish themselves in the top 50.
also European Tour have massively relaxed their membership criteria as players weren't going to come and play 8 or 12 events and miss out on big prize pools in US events.
I watched a bit of the old Ryder Cups from 1995 and 97 yesterday. Both had players commenting after where they hoped these results would really help the tour kick on.
It is a shame that the ET has suffered so much and that the PGA Tour have been so keen to really push the finances up so aggressively and provide so much additional earning potential to players committing to the PGA Tour.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
Rahm is currently the best not to win.
Historically it’s to close to call between Westwood & Montgomerie.
...as one knob on here used the say, The End!
Historically it’s to close to call between Westwood & Montgomerie.
...as one knob on here used the say, The End!
D
Deleted member 21258
Guest
cheers, just googled it as never listened one, got time to waste in the evenings now, so will watch it later, thanks.
Here it is :-
https://nolayingup.com/2019/03/26/nlu-podcast-episode-204-steve-elkington/
Jacko_G
Blackballed
It's called the Tiger Woods effect. Tiger grew golf again in the States.
Grant85
Head Pro
I think there's more to it than that. The Tiger effect should / would have had an impact in Europe as well in terms of people watching the sport or having an interest. Ultimately it's all about sponsorship - which is what keeps a tour going and allows them to have the top players week in week out.
I feel the US Tour has capitalised on that to the max. There are also a bigger pool of sponsors who operate US wide that have big enough budgets to put up $5 or $10million to sponsor an event.
I'd guess that pool of companies is smaller in Europe with a lot of big companies in the UK, Ireland, Spain, Sweden, France, Emirates etc. who might have that kind of budget, but feel there customer base is centred in one or two countries, so it's a waste to spend the kind of money on a Europe or Worldwide event.
US tour has a lot of financial and tech / comms companies that will market to the entire country. In Europe those markets are far more fractured and anyone with a global reach / appeal (Mastercard for example) is going to look to the US tour 1st as having wider appeal.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
Good for you but I'll reply in one paragraph. I think you're wrong.
Grant85
Head Pro
Great insight.
D
Deleted member 1147
Guest
It is, he’s correct ?
Grant85
Head Pro
well some figures from pre-Tiger / post-Tiger.
1997 Players Champion earned $630,000
1997 BMW PGA Champion earned €256,676
So European Tour flagship event prize was 41% of the PGA Tour flagship event prize.
For the purpose of this, lets assume $1 = €1, they're usually a few cents different.
2020 Players Champion was due to earn $2,700,000
2020 BMW PGA Champion was due to earn €1,056,000
Currently European Tour flagship event prize is now 39% of the PGA Tour flagship event prize.
Hardly a huge jump in differential from prizes that were set pre-Tiger, to now. %age differences very similar. It's just that the PGA Tour has a systemic advantage in terms of the type and range of sponsors that they can attract and the money that can sustain their tour.
1997 Players Champion earned $630,000
1997 BMW PGA Champion earned €256,676
So European Tour flagship event prize was 41% of the PGA Tour flagship event prize.
For the purpose of this, lets assume $1 = €1, they're usually a few cents different.
2020 Players Champion was due to earn $2,700,000
2020 BMW PGA Champion was due to earn €1,056,000
Currently European Tour flagship event prize is now 39% of the PGA Tour flagship event prize.
Hardly a huge jump in differential from prizes that were set pre-Tiger, to now. %age differences very similar. It's just that the PGA Tour has a systemic advantage in terms of the type and range of sponsors that they can attract and the money that can sustain their tour.
D
Deleted member 18588
Guest
It doesn't matter how many POTENTIAL sponsors there may be.
Sponsors are only interested in eyeballs. They are not going to put money into any event if there aren't TV viewers.
The networks in the States have all confirmed that events where Tiger is in the field attract significantly more viewers than those without and this has been the case since he came on the scene in 1996.
Similar to the effect Arnold Palmer had 60 years ago.
Unfortunately golf doesn't have the same pull upon viewers in UK and Europe.
Jacko_G
Blackballed
And strength and depth, quality of field?
Sponsorship for players?
Appearance fees?
Facilities?
TV deals.
Course management and condition.
Fan participation/facilities.
Golf in USA was dying until Tiger came onto the scene. It was in decline, tournaments were folding TV companies were not renewing contracts.
Flagship events in EVERY tour will always have the biggest fields and purses, it's the quality of the fields in "lesser" tournaments that show the bread and butter of the tour.
Val
Ryder Cup Winner
It could easily be argued Tiger is the reason the ET is where it's at currently. There is absolutely no doubt he was and to a degree still is the main draw.
Grant85
Head Pro
Sponsorship for players continues to be a big factor for US and European players.
Appearance fees have never been allowed in PGA Tour events.
Facilities - I'm sure none of us have ever experienced facilities for players on either tour, so why bring it up.
TV deals - go to the tour which they will try and use to boost prize money, as well as run their own operations.
Same with course management and condition. No one is avoiding any European tour events because of dodgy greens or bare fairways.
Fan facilities - again, not really sure how this is going to impact player decisions.
then more words that don't prove anything.
The Tiger factor is massively overstated. Professional Sports was going this way in general with the advent of designated sports channels, pay per view and athletes realising they could earn a lot by marketing themselves as a brand.
Since 1997 the Wimbledon prize fund has increased from £6.88 million to £38 million. 5.5x increase during the 'Tiger era'.
The Players Prize money has increased 4.28x in the same period.
The BMW PGA Prize money has increased 4.11x since 1997.
I'm very sure similar comparisons exist for other sports such as football, Cricket, Rugby, NFL etc.
