Alignment

[kid2]

Evening all......

Bought myself some of those alignment canes some of you were talking about the other night........I have to say they are very useful......I used clubs all along but they are in no way as good as the canes.....

Anyhoooo......I was able to fade and draw the ball with the help of these.....But im a little confused with the target......

I will give our 4th hole Pr 3 165 mtrs as an example.....I usually hit a 4 or 5 Iron off this tee....The green is shaped like an upside down saucer. Regardless of where the pin is cut the green falls in all directions so its pretty hard to hold....Its guarded on 1 side by a bunker and 1 in front........
Sorry in advance if this question sounds a little stupid.
Here's where im a little confused......If i usually hit my long irons with a fade and the pin is dead centre ofhe green..... Would my target be the bunkers on the lef side of the green with my feet paralell to this.....

Is the target where you want the ball to land or is it the line that you want the ball to start on.......


Also the other night i was talking about an out to in swing path.......I noticed the other night that my left han was in a very strong position on the club (I could see 3 knuckles)......If i was then trying to get my right hand more on top of the club would my hands be fighting each other causing the wayward shots.....I did tend to hold the club mainly in my fingers only but on reading some articles this is supposed to be bad


Thanks in advance......
Mike

 

[JustOne]

The question is whether or not you actually play with a fade OR whether you actually have a push-slice.

If you line up with your target line at the flag and your feet parallel to that target line and the ball starts a little left before drifting back into the pin then that's a fade.

If you line up left, start the ball at the bunker and it then moves off to the right you've hit a push-fade or a push-slice (whichever you prefer).

Only you will be able to tell which shot you hit once you try when you are lined up properly. Having a fade shaped flight doesn't mean you are hitting a fade at all.

 

[kid2]

The question is whether or not you actually play with a fade OR whether you actually have a push-slice.

If you line up with your target line at the flag and your feet parallel to that target line and the ball starts a little left before drifting back into the pin then that's a fade.

If you line up left, start the ball at the bunker and it then moves off to the right you've hit a push-fade or a push-slice (whichever you prefer).

Only you will be able to tell which shot you hit once you try when you are lined up properly. Having a fade shaped flight doesn't mean you are hitting a fade at all.

Now im really confussssed J..

Ok this is what happened me last weekend......
My club face aimed at the pin(centre of the green)......My feet hips and shoulders were paralell left of this probably in line with the edge of the green and those bunkers.... There's about 12 yards between the pin and bunkers......My ball landed on the right side of the green abut 30 feet below the flag........Hope i havent confused you tooo

 

[JustOne]

No, your clubface was at the target so that is where the ball started... it had slice spin on it because you cut across it, so it drifted off to the right.... and that is known as a push-slice.

 

[kid2]

Im guessing its a swing path issue with the long irons so.....I dont have this problem with my woods.....They fly pretty straight......Could i be standing a little too cose to the ball with the long irons...... I am aware that it could be a number of issues but whats best to start with....

Maybe im standing more open at address than i think......What has me confused is that the hole after tis is a par 5....I take 3 wood off the tee and im practically bullet straight wth it...Exactly where im aiming.

 

[JustOne]

It's not really a swingpath issue, there's nothing wrong with hitting push-slices, it's just not a fade. So if you are telling people you hit fades and they are offering you advice they would/could effectively be offering you the WRONG advice. You'd only have to worry about your swingpath if you wanted to hit a different shape of shot, but for now it is what it is.



If you find out your true shot shape then it's easier to understand what is going on. As I said before, set up a target line directly to the flag with one of your alignment sticks, stand behind it and make sure it's pointed right at the pin then stand parallel to it (put another alignment stick across your toes if necessary) put a ball in the middle of your stance then hit some 6/7/8 iron shots and record what happens to the ball... do they start left, straight or right, then do they generally turn a little left, stay straight or go off to the right. Once you know what happens MOST of the time when you are aligned properly you will be able to figure out what's going on in your swing.

 

[JustOne]

Just to confuse you here's a little image....

Let's start and pretend you are lined up left of the target with your feet and hips aligned along the BLUE line, (the flag is the pink blob) and you hit 3 shots, a ,b and c

A is a pull-fade as it starts left of your feet line and curves back to it

B is a fade as it starts straightish but tails off to the right

C is a push-slice as it starts to the right of your foot line and drifts further away (like the shot you described above that ended up to the front right of the green)


HOWEVER if your feet and hips were aligned parallel to the GREEN line (directly at the flag) then shot B is no longer a fade, it is a PULL-FADE (starts left of your feet and curves back to it)

shot C is no longer a push-slice, it's a FADE (starts pretty straight and tails off to the right)

shot A, well you don't even want to know what that shot is if you are lined up square to the green line (it's almost a straight-pull left but you could say it's a VERY BAD pull-fade)

So the shape of shot you are hitting depends where you are lined up, not where the target is.

And (to me) the interesting part is that you could aim your feet to the left hand side of the fairway and 'slice' one right across it into the right hand rough and it isn't actually a slice!! because a slice starts to the LEFT of the feet.


I hope that's got you suitably confused...... I am 'cos my first reply was utter tripe

If you line up with your target line at the flag and your feet parallel to that target line and the ball starts a little left before drifting back into the pin then that's a PULL-FADE

If you line up left, start the ball at the bunker and it then moves off to the right you've hit a FADE

Fixed!

And if you line up left, your ball starts at the flag and drifts right then that's shot C, a PUSH-SLICE. I knew I'd get there in the end.




..... NEXT!

 

[Losttheplot]

This is not only interesting but also educational. Lots of terms and explanations here.
I find it amazing that there is the common misconception to what a fade is and how to hit a fade. I was totally wrong in my head on what it is.
When I set up for a fade I'm actually playing the push fade/push slice. I align left of the normal target line and then play the slice and I thought it was a fade.
I didnt realise your suppost to stay aligned straight. I know to change the swing path but everything else was total b****cks. I'm going to the range on my day off. I have some work to do now! Cheers!

 

[JustOne]

Forgot to answer this..

If i usually hit my long irons with a fade and the pin is dead centre ofhe green..... Would my target be the bunkers on the lef side of the green with my feet paralell to this.....

Yes, in the picture above you would set up square to the blue line, aim your clubface at the bunker on the left and hit shot B, a fade.

If however you aim your clubface at the target (flag) you'll end up hitting shot C as the clubface will be too open relative to your swingpath, the ball will start at the flag and curve further right.

 

[Losttheplot]

I've just re-read it through and I was hitting it correctly... Your just out to confuse me now.......

Can I just clarify...
A fade... Do you keep the clubhead pointing at the pin and swing normally or do you point the clubhead at your left target line and swing out to in to create the spin on the ball??

 

[MashieNiblick]

Interesting stuff. Our pro told me that when I want to shape a shot, at address, aim my feet along the path I want the ball to start on and the club face where I want to ball to finish and swing normally.

It's simple and it works, with a bit of practice.

On JustOne's diagram think about path B, a fade into the middle of the fairway. Feet line up on blue line, club face on pink dot. Normal swing.

As I say, it works for me, but I tend to use it when I need big movement (round trees or dog legs) rather than subtle shots into the green.

Maybe Bobmac or Charlie Hopper can enlighten further.

 

[JustOne]

Can I just clarify...
A fade... Do you keep the clubhead pointing at the pin and swing normally or do you point the clubhead at your left target line and swing out to in to create the spin on the ball??

The second part... you point the clubhead square to your left target line and swing out to in to create the spin on the ball. The ball then starts down your left target line and drifts slightly to the right - a fade.

What tends to happen is people worry that they might swing through straight instead of out to in and hit it (for example) into the bunker... so they open the face even more, then lose all the distance and hit a big high banana that curves a lot to the right.

You have to also be aware if you are aiming left that the ball position is correct and it hasn't slipped a bit further back in your stance!... lot's to worry about

 

[JustOne]

On JustOne's diagram think about path B, a fade into the middle of the fairway. Feet line up on blue line, club face on pink dot. Normal swing.

That would give you shot C

Ball would start at the pink dot and drift right.

 

[Robobum]

There should be a governmnet health warning on this thread, it will seriously srew your mind if you try to read it all!!

 

[JustOne]

It screws my mind because I spent 15 years thinking that a ball that starts to the left and curves back to the target line is a fade when it is actually a pull fade played with the clubface closed to the target!

 

[chrisd]

It screws my mind because I spent 15 years thinking that a ball that starts to the left and curves back to the target line is a fade when it is actually a pull fade played with the clubface closed to the target!

All that screws my mind is how I'm going to get out of the greenside bunker and close to the pin, not what they called the swing that got me in there!!


chris

 

[richart]

Interesting stuff. Our pro told me that when I want to shape a shot, at address, aim my feet along the path I want the ball to start on and the club face where I want to ball to finish and swing normally.

It's simple and it works, with a bit of practice.

On JustOne's diagram think about path B, a fade into the middle of the fairway. Feet line up on blue line, club face on pink dot. Normal swing.

As I say, it works for me, but I tend to use it when I need big movement (round trees or dog legs) rather than subtle shots into the green.

Maybe Bobmac or Charlie Hopper can enlighten further.

I do the same, but i think we are old school.

 

[bobmac]

Interesting stuff. Our pro told me that when I want to shape a shot, at address, aim my feet along the path I want the ball to start on and the club face where I want to ball to finish and swing normally.

It's simple and it works, with a bit of practice.

On JustOne's diagram think about path B, a fade into the middle of the fairway. Feet line up on blue line, club face on pink dot. Normal swing.

As I say, it works for me, but I tend to use it when I need big movement (round trees or dog legs) rather than subtle shots into the green.

Maybe Bobmac or Charlie Hopper can enlighten further.

I do the same, but i think we are old school.

I was told the same thing but we now know it isn't quite right as the ball starts nearer the clubface direction than the swing path

 

[richart]

Interesting stuff. Our pro told me that when I want to shape a shot, at address, aim my feet along the path I want the ball to start on and the club face where I want to ball to finish and swing normally.

It's simple and it works, with a bit of practice.

On JustOne's diagram think about path B, a fade into the middle of the fairway. Feet line up on blue line, club face on pink dot. Normal swing.

As I say, it works for me, but I tend to use it when I need big movement (round trees or dog legs) rather than subtle shots into the green.

Maybe Bobmac or Charlie Hopper can enlighten further.

I do the same, but i think we are old school.

I was told the same thing but we now know it isn't quite right as the ball starts nearer the clubface direction than the swing path

I know, i know !! JustOne has already given me the lecture.

 

[Losttheplot]

My mind is officially blown now.
I now understand what a fade is but how do you do it?
Help me here...

Right!
I'm trying to hit the pin so do you either:
1. I align left directly at the bunker. Point the clubhead straight at the pin and swing normally.
2. Align left directly at the bunker. Point the clubhead left, parallel to my feet so it's aiming towards the bunker too and then swing out to in to create the spin???

Both to me will create a left to right spin on the ball.
So which way is correct?????