Doc
Head Pro
Tee shot 1
2nd shot 2
Wrong ball 4
1st Provisional 6
Back to the tee
3rd tee shot 8
Cheers
Steve...
2nd shot 2
Wrong ball 4
1st Provisional 6
Back to the tee
3rd tee shot 8
Cheers
Steve...
A little one to work the mind on rules.
- Thread starter MadAdey
- Start date
PIng
Head Pro
1st shot - tee
2nd shot - wrong ball
2 shot penalty
provisional doesn't count because he thought he's found the original.
5th - back to tee
6th shot -tee
So, 6 shots ?
2nd shot - wrong ball
2 shot penalty
provisional doesn't count because he thought he's found the original.
5th - back to tee
6th shot -tee
So, 6 shots ?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
What a nasty one.
Ok here goes.
Tee shot = 1
Shots with wrong ball don't count so just the 2 shot penalty = 3
Now here's where it gets tricky.
When the provisional was picked up was it "in play"? If not there won't be a penalty for that.
That would leave stroke and distance for the lost ball = 4 and back to tee
so playing 5 from the tee.
But that doesn't seem enough.
If provisional was ball "in play" when picked up then that would be 2 stroke penalty for not replacing = 5
Plus stroke and distance for lost ball = 6 and back to tee
Means replayed tee shot is his 7th
Intrigued to know the answer and now I've posted I'm off to the Rules explorer on the R&A site.
Ok here goes.
Tee shot = 1
Shots with wrong ball don't count so just the 2 shot penalty = 3
Now here's where it gets tricky.
When the provisional was picked up was it "in play"? If not there won't be a penalty for that.
That would leave stroke and distance for the lost ball = 4 and back to tee
so playing 5 from the tee.
But that doesn't seem enough.
If provisional was ball "in play" when picked up then that would be 2 stroke penalty for not replacing = 5
Plus stroke and distance for lost ball = 6 and back to tee
Means replayed tee shot is his 7th
Intrigued to know the answer and now I've posted I'm off to the Rules explorer on the R&A site.
MadAdey
Money List Winner
I do appologise if I have got he answer incorrect. But Mashie is spot on and I will clarify what has happened and what should have been done.
Tee shot = 1
Played another ball that was nominated as a provisional.
Played the ball from the trees that was an incorrect ball = 2 shot penalty.
Does not count the stroke he made with the wrong ball.
Everyone understood that bit so he has now played 3 shots
Does not know where his original ball is so declared as a lost ball.
He should now be playing his provisional ball so that would be shot number 5.
He has already declared the provisional ball as not being in play by picking it up and playing on with the incorrect ball so he can't then replace the provisional ball.
He has to now go back to the tee and play another ball which incurs the standard stroke and distance penalty so he has now played 7 shots.
Tee shot = 1
Played another ball that was nominated as a provisional.
Played the ball from the trees that was an incorrect ball = 2 shot penalty.
Does not count the stroke he made with the wrong ball.
Everyone understood that bit so he has now played 3 shots
Does not know where his original ball is so declared as a lost ball.
He should now be playing his provisional ball so that would be shot number 5.
He has already declared the provisional ball as not being in play by picking it up and playing on with the incorrect ball so he can't then replace the provisional ball.
He has to now go back to the tee and play another ball which incurs the standard stroke and distance penalty so he has now played 7 shots.
Region3
Ryder Cup Winner
If he's realised he'd played the wrong ball before he picked his provisional up, surely his next shot with the provisional would be shot number 6 ie. 3 off the tee + 2 shot penalty for wrong ball?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Don't think I did get this right. I think it is 8 from the tee. In my answer I actually missed an extra stroke as by that thinking it should be 3 off the tee plus 2 shots for wrong ball plus 2 shots for not replacing provisional = 7 so playing 8 from the tee. However that isn't actually the right explanation.
Region3 is on the right track as he would indeed be playing 6 if he hadn't lifted the provisional. He did, so that's a penalty instead, then he played again from the tee, in effect incurring an additional stroke and distance penalty. So it is 8 from the tee.
I found this (after I posted!!!)
27-2b/9 Provisional Ball Lifted Subsequently Becomes Ball in Play
"Q. In stroke play, a competitor, believing his tee shot might be lost, plays a provisional ball. He finds a ball he believes is his original ball, plays a stroke at it, picks up his provisional ball and then discovers that the ball he played was not his original ball, but rather a wrong ball. He resumes search for this original ball but cannot find it. What is the ruling?
A.The competitor lifted a ball which was to become the ball in play, i.e. the provisional ball – see Rule 27-2b. Accordingly, the competitor incurred a stroke-and-distance penalty under Rule 27-1 as a result of losing his original ball, a two-stroke penalty under Rule 15-3b for playing a wrong ball and a one-stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a for picking up his provisional ball. He is required to replace and play out the provisional ball. The competitor would be playing his seventh stroke."
In that scenario the player was able to replace the provisional under penalty of just one stroke. So he has played 6 (3 off the tee, 2 shot pen for wrong ball + 1 shot pen for lifting provisional) and is playing his 7th from the fairway.
However then there's this
27-2b/10 Provisional Ball Lifted Subsequently Becomes Ball in Play; Competitor Then Plays from Wrong Place
"Q. With regard to Decision 27-2b/9, what is the ruling if the competitor returns to the tee with the provisional ball and puts it into play again?
A. When the competitor played again from the tee rather than replacing and playing the provisional ball from where it was lifted, he put that ball into play under penalty of stroke-and-distance (see Rule 27-1a). However, the penalty of one stroke for the original lifting of the provisional ball in breach of Rule 18-2a still applies because, at the moment of lifting the provisional ball, the player had no intention of playing it again from the teeing ground. Therefore, the competitor would be playing his eighth stroke from the tee."
Which I think is the scenario in the OP.
Now I need to lie down.
Region3 is on the right track as he would indeed be playing 6 if he hadn't lifted the provisional. He did, so that's a penalty instead, then he played again from the tee, in effect incurring an additional stroke and distance penalty. So it is 8 from the tee.
I found this (after I posted!!!)
27-2b/9 Provisional Ball Lifted Subsequently Becomes Ball in Play
"Q. In stroke play, a competitor, believing his tee shot might be lost, plays a provisional ball. He finds a ball he believes is his original ball, plays a stroke at it, picks up his provisional ball and then discovers that the ball he played was not his original ball, but rather a wrong ball. He resumes search for this original ball but cannot find it. What is the ruling?
A.The competitor lifted a ball which was to become the ball in play, i.e. the provisional ball – see Rule 27-2b. Accordingly, the competitor incurred a stroke-and-distance penalty under Rule 27-1 as a result of losing his original ball, a two-stroke penalty under Rule 15-3b for playing a wrong ball and a one-stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a for picking up his provisional ball. He is required to replace and play out the provisional ball. The competitor would be playing his seventh stroke."
In that scenario the player was able to replace the provisional under penalty of just one stroke. So he has played 6 (3 off the tee, 2 shot pen for wrong ball + 1 shot pen for lifting provisional) and is playing his 7th from the fairway.
However then there's this
27-2b/10 Provisional Ball Lifted Subsequently Becomes Ball in Play; Competitor Then Plays from Wrong Place
"Q. With regard to Decision 27-2b/9, what is the ruling if the competitor returns to the tee with the provisional ball and puts it into play again?
A. When the competitor played again from the tee rather than replacing and playing the provisional ball from where it was lifted, he put that ball into play under penalty of stroke-and-distance (see Rule 27-1a). However, the penalty of one stroke for the original lifting of the provisional ball in breach of Rule 18-2a still applies because, at the moment of lifting the provisional ball, the player had no intention of playing it again from the teeing ground. Therefore, the competitor would be playing his eighth stroke from the tee."
Which I think is the scenario in the OP.
Now I need to lie down.
He's now disqualified for taking 3 hrs to work out his score for that hole!!:smirk:
MadAdey
Money List Winner
Yes Mashie you are correct. I must apologise for this thread as I had a text back this morning from the person who told me it. I had not got the question correct. Player A had actually gone and played another shot with the wrong ball. But hey what the hell got people thinking about he rules didn't it. Does not hurt to be able to work things out when something different from the norm happens.
chrisd
Major Champion
I bet he wished he was playing match play as he would have been out of the hole as soon as he played the wrong ball ! Move on to the next tee!
Chris
Chris
Monty_Brown
Tour Rookie
Adey,
Has your Dad's mate got any more of these?
If so, tell him to keep 'em to himself
Has your Dad's mate got any more of these?
If so, tell him to keep 'em to himself
MadAdey
Money List Winner
Adey,
Has your Dad's mate got any more of these?
If so, tell him to keep 'em to himself
Oh he has more of them. Problem is he uses them to put you off. Asks you one at the first tee and it bloody puts you right off your game trying to work it out...
