Player's ball played by another

[2blue]

Can't find an answer to this using the Rules App
From the tee Player A takes a provisional but cannot find the first ball as it has been mistakingly played to the green, by Player B. This is only discovered after A plays his provisional to the green. What are his options?

 

[Maninblack4612]

6.3c (2) says that, once discovered, the player's ball must be replaced & played from its estimated original position. I would take that literally & forget about the provisional. Wouldn't be surprised if there is a clarification somewhere.

 

[jim8flog]

A
9.6 Ball Lifted or Moved by Outside Influence
If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence (including another player in
stroke play or another ball) lifted or moved a player’s ball at rest:
• There is no penalty, and
• The ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be
estimated) (see Rule 14.2).
This applies whether or not the player’s ball has been found.
But if it is not known or virtually certain that the ball was lifted or moved by an
outside influence and the ball is lost, the player must take stroke-and-distance relief
under Rule 18.2.

 

[Steven Rules]

Two additional points here.

Of course, if the discovery that another player has played the player’s original ball is made more than three minutes after the player began searching for the original ball, then the original ball is lost and the provisional is the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

Second, the player who played the wrong ball receives the general penalty. and In stroke play Player B must go back and find the right ball to play. Strokes played with the wrong ball do not count.

 

[rulefan]

Player A B would get the general penalty as above. Strokeplay - 2 strokes. Matchplay - loss of hole

 

[Steven Rules]

Player A would get the general penalty as above. Strokeplay - 2 strokes. Matchplay - loss of hole

I think you mean Player B from #1 would get the general penalty.

 

[rulefan]

I think you mean Player B from #1 would get the general penalty.

Thanks. Now corrected.

 

[Steven Rules]

Can't find an answer to this using the Rules App

Just out of interest, what sort of search terms in the app did you use, or where in the app did you look that bore no fruit?

 

[Steven Rules]

Thanks. Now corrected.

And prompted by your response at #5, I have gone back and made a small refinement to tidy up my original response at #4.

 

[2blue]

Two additional points here.

Of course, if the discovery that another player has played the player’s original ball is made more than three minutes after the player began searching for the original ball, then the original ball is lost and the provisional is the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

Second, the player who played the wrong ball receives the general penalty. and In stroke play Player B must go back and find the right ball to play. Strokes played with the wrong ball do not count.

Not sure that's going to be correct as the ball was not there to be found since B played A's ball in error before going to help look for it Could only spot the error when he came to putt it on the green. I'd say at that point A abandons his provisional & goes back to where his original was played in error. Yes B gets penalties. Is that it??

 

[2blue]

9.6 Ball Lifted or Moved by Outside Influence
If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence (including another player in
stroke play or another ball) lifted or moved a player’s ball at rest:
• There is no penalty, and
• The ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be
estimated) (see Rule 14.2).

This would seem to be the most appropriate rule.

 

[doublebogey7]

Regardless of weather or not the ball was there to be found, it would appear that it was not found within the three minutes search time and therefore the ball was lost. Player A must therefore continue play with the provisional. As others have said player B gets the general player and must return to play the original ball. If they fail to do that then they are DQ'd

 

[Steven Rules]

Not sure that's going to be correct as the ball was not there to be found since B played A's ball in error before

Unfortunately for Player A, what I said at #4 is absolutely correct. If the discovery that another player has played Player A’s original ball is made more than three minutes after Player A began searching for the original ball, then the original ball is lost and the provisional is the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance.

Harsh but true.

 

[berniethebolt]

Presumably if, before the 3 minutes have passed, player B says that he might have hit A,s ball by mistake then the time is paused to allow A (or B) to go to the green and check.

 

[rulefan]

Presumably if, before the 3 minutes have passed, player B says that he might have hit A,s ball by mistake then the time is paused to allow A (or B) to go to the green and check.

IMO yes

 

[Steven Rules]

Time is not paused. But the player is allowed a reasonable time to go forward and check. That reasonable time may extend beyond the three minute search period. But if that ball is not the player’s and the three minutes has elapsed, the ball is lost. Rule 18.2a(1)

 

[rulefan]

Time is not paused. But the player is allowed a reasonable time to go forward and check. That reasonable time may extend beyond the three minute search period. But if that ball is not the player’s and the three minutes has elapsed, the ball is lost. Rule 18.2a(1)

I believe that the last para of 18.2a(1)/3 is appropriate.

 

[Steven Rules]

Corect. That describes what is a reasonable time. And if it is not the player’s ball and the original three minute search period has expired, the ball is lost.

 

[Steven Rules]

Addendum to #16. There are circumstances where the "clock stops" on the three minute search period. This scenario is not one of them. See 18 2a(1)/1 for more info.

 

[backwoodsman]

In light of the above, when a ball is found 'far away' (eg suspicion that someone else played it) would it be permissible to finish (or nearly so) your three minutes before heading off to check - rather than forfeit the balance of your search time? The possibility that it might not be yours looms and it seems a bit inequitable that you lose your chance of finding it?