4BBB matchplay 90% calculation

[cliveb]

In a better ball match, I am fairly sure that you take each player's course HCP, then take 90% of the difference from the lowest to work out the shots.
But the other day the others in my group said each player takes 90% of their course HCP then you take the difference.
I know in many cases it won't make a difference, but am pretty certain that the various rounding errors could sometimes change things by a shot.
I'd like to get a definitive answer to this from the experts here.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You work out playing handicaps of each player (as 90% course handicap) and take full difference. It can make a difference where there is a mix of high and low handicaps in the four-ball (note that 90% is just for matchplay)

 

[louise_a]

it used to be 90% of the difference but under WHS it is now playing handicap of 90% and full difference.

 

[jim8flog]

In agreement with others
Each player works out their Course Handicap.
They then work out 90% to get to their Playing Handicap
Shots are then taken against the person with the lowest Playing Handicap.

from the Rule Book

Guidance to the Rules of Handicapping Page 42

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In agreement with others
Each player works out their Course Handicap.
They then work out 90% to get to their Playing Handicap
Shots are then taken against the person with the lowest Playing Handicap.

from the Rule Book

Guidance to the Rules of Handicapping Page 42

I have to admit to some frustration when having asked 3 others their handicaps so I can work out shots given/received i so often get blank looks or responses of the sort 10.4 - which is clearly the HI, or 'my course handicap is 12'. I then ask for the PH and they don't know - or as OP experience one or more will start arguing you difference CHs then apply the factor - and be adamant about it.

For goodness sake, this really isn't difficult (that not directed at OP as his was a confirmation of his correct understanding). Once you know your PH for 4BBB that's all anyone in a 4BBB match will be interested in.

 

[jim8flog]

I have to admit to some frustration when having asked 3 others their handicaps so I can work out shots given/received i so often get blank looks or responses of the sort 10.4 - which is clearly the HI, or 'my course handicap is 12'. I then ask for the PH and they don't know - or as OP experience one or more will start arguing you difference CHs then apply the factor - and be adamant about it.

For goodness sake, this really isn't difficult (that not directed at OP as his was a confirmation of his correct understanding). Once you know your PH for 4BBB that's all anyone in a 4BBB match will be interested in.

I still get players who do not understand, 16 months down the line, how to work out their HCPs in singles comps. I will never tell them I just them to the computer to show them where to find it or take them to the charts by the 1st tee. It is not rocket science.

 

[cliveb]

Thanks to everyone who has explained that I had it wrong!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I still get players who do not understand, 16 months down the line, how to work out their HCPs in singles comps. I will never tell them I just them to the computer to show them where to find it or take them to the charts by the 1st tee. It is not rocket science.

I have printed the single page doc my club has posted on our website that summarises allowances and shots given/received for all formats of golf, and I have this folded up and tucked into my scorecard holder - so fed up have I become finding myself by the 1st tee engaged in discussions, debates and sometimes arguments on the matter.

 

[Deleted member 25172]

I’d say that +90% of all 4BBB matches (friendly and comps) are calculated in the old way at my club.

 

[Colin L]

I’d say that +90% of all 4BBB matches (friendly and comps) are calculated in the old way at my club.

Friendlies - no matter; competitions - no excuse.

 

[rulefan]

I’d say that +90% of all 4BBB matches (friendly and comps) are calculated in the old way at my club.

Only when the losers begin to realise that they may not have lost if done correctly, will they get it right.

 

[Foxholer]

it used to be 90% of the difference but under WHS it is now playing handicap of 90% and full difference.

Which equates to the same thing - assuming you mean 'Full difference of 90% of handicaps'!
Hcp1*0.9 - Hcp2*0.9 = (Hcp1 - Hcp2)*0.9
WHS method vs Old method

 

[TheBlackCat]

No, there is rounding involved, so it can be different.
For example:- Player 1: CH 7, Player 2: CH 23.
WHS method:- Player 1: 7*.9=6.3, PH=6. Player 2: 23*.9=20.7, PH=21. Difference: 21-6 = 15 shots given.
Old method:- Difference in CH's: 23-7=16. 16*.9=14.4, 14 shots given.

 

[rulefan]

No, there is rounding involved, so it can be different.
For example:- Player 1: CH 7, Player 2: CH 23.
WHS method:- Player 1: 7*.9=6.3, PH=6. Player 2: 23*.9=20.7, PH=21. Difference: 21-6 = 15 shots given.
Old method:- Difference in CH's: 23-7=16. 16*.9=14.4, 14 shots given.

Which is why, when the losers begin to realise that they may not have lost if done correctly, will they get it right.

 

[Swango1980]

I’d say that +90% of all 4BBB matches (friendly and comps) are calculated in the old way at my club.

I noticed at our club, the terms of the competition for the winter league on howdidido it showed how shot allowances were calculated, and they used the old way. In our matches we used the new method, however I was awaiting for one opponent to eventually start an argument that it should be done the old way.

 

[Foxholer]

No, there is rounding involved, so it can be different.
For example:- Player 1: CH 7, Player 2: CH 23.
WHS method:- Player 1: 7*.9=6.3, PH=6. Player 2: 23*.9=20.7, PH=21. Difference: 21-6 = 15 shots given.
Old method:- Difference in CH's: 23-7=16. 16*.9=14.4, 14 shots given.

Doh!
I sit corrected!

 

[jim8flog]

I noticed at our club, the terms of the competition for the winter league on howdidido it showed how shot allowances were calculated, and they used the old way. In our matches we used the new method, however I was awaiting for one opponent to eventually start an argument that it should be done the old way.

Apparently there was a bit of argument between players in one of last years interclub matches which got a bit out of hand. The other club were adamant they had got it right and our players were adamant we had got it right.

 

[tobybarker]

Lol we have seen the same argument..... Some people take a lot of convincing that the rules have changed and yes, rounding CAN make a difference of up to one stroke

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Lol we have seen the same argument..... Some people take a lot of convincing that the rules have changed and yes, rounding CAN make a difference of up to one stroke

The complaints are a load of nonsense and argument for the sake of it it seems to me.

If we are playing a 4BBB each of us simply knows our 4BBB PH before we step on the tee - and we all should, it's not difficult. Then all we do in our fours is a simple subtraction...no working out of any %s whatsoever. Nothing could be simpler. Its not as if we turn up to play with format tbd. We know in advance. But hey.

 

[Swango1980]

The complaints are a load of nonsense and argument for the sake of it it seems to me.

If we are playing a 4BBB each of us simply knows our 4BBB PH before we step on the tee - and we all should, it's not difficult. Then all we do in our fours is a simple subtraction...no working out of any %s whatsoever. Nothing could be simpler. Its not as if we turn up to play with format tbd. We know in advance. But hey.

Well, you still need to do your 90%. You just do it one step earlier in the process than before.