4BBB matchplay 90% calculation

[tobybarker]

Yes but the issue is it used to be done in a different way so the old timers are convinced they are right....ie the 90 percent being by taken off the difference

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Well, you still need to do your 90%. You just do it one step earlier in the process than before.

Of course. But you can do that before you leave the house, and indeed if your CH has not changed you don't need to redo it at all. And so all we do on the 1st tee is declare our 4BBB Matchplay PH and do a simple subtraction...no debate and no faffing about over %s.

And as said...that's why I carry in my bag a printout of the club single page doc that summarises allowances for all formats of play. That ends any and all debate.

 

[rulefan]

Yes but the issue is it used to be done in a different way so the old timers are convinced they are right....ie the 90 percent being by taken off the difference

It has to be done in a different way because there weren't Course and Playing Handicaps before.
If you are playing in a competition of any type PH is the important number. CH is only relevant (but not the prime consideration) if you are returning a handicap qualifying score whether in competition or not.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In agreement with others
Each player works out their Course Handicap.
They then work out 90% to get to their Playing Handicap
Shots are then taken against the person with the lowest Playing Handicap.

from the Rule Book

Guidance to the Rules of Handicapping Page 42

Had disagreement over this yesterday.

Was asked mid round of 4BBB friendly match for my CH by opponent as he was checking shots in our 4BBB for shots on hole just played. I told him my PH for 4BBB. He was adamant that I must tell him my CH (as I was lowest CH) as he must difference CHs then do the 90% and round for shots. I told him he was wrong, that in any comp you always do the PH calc for each player first. He got a bit irritated with me (yes I know - easy done). I restated my PH and insisted, but no…he wasn’t having any of it and so I acquiesced as i couldn‘t immediately give an example of why order mattered.

Playing partner told me to let it go - he’d given up having same discussion with others. Frustrated and a bit irritated I walked to my ball and shanked it. Serves me right for letting it get to me and getting frustrated.

 

[rulefan]

Let us have the CHs and see if it makes a difference.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Let us have the CHs and see if it makes a difference.

Don’t think order actually made any difference…for me it was as much the principle of the thing given earlier whinging by same lad over WHS and having to know both CH and PH etc. I told him he doesn’t need to know my CH, I can tell him my PH for 4BBB.

But just for interest sake I think the four CHs were 9, 13, 14, 18

 

[Swango1980]

Don’t think order actually made any difference…for me it was as much the principle of the thing given earlier whinging by same lad over WHS and having to know both CH and PH etc. I told him he doesn’t need to know my CH, I can tell him my PH for 4BBB.

But just for interest sake I think the four CHs were 9, 13, 14, 18

You need to print off the example within the WHS manual. Can't remember reference off top of my head, but it should make it clear you do the 90% first (of CH), then take full diff

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You need to print off the example within the WHS manual. Can't remember reference off top of my head, but it should make it clear you do the 90% first (of CH), then take full diff

My club posted a document (possibly the one you mention) on our website summarising all the allowances and how you calc PH from CH and then shots for different formats. I have it printed off and carry it in my scorecard holder. Was going to pull it out but such was his absolute conviction and impatience with me, plus the look I got from my partner that said ‘don’t go there it’s just not worth it’, that I didn’t. Maybe I will next time I am sat with him in the clubhouse.

 

[rulefan]

My club posted a document (possibly the one you mention) on our website summarising all the allowances and how you calc PH from CH and then shots for different formats. I have it printed off and carry it in my scorecard holder. Was going to pull it out but such was his absolute conviction and impatience with me, plus the look I got from my partner that said ‘don’t go there it’s just not worth it’, that I didn’t. Maybe I will next time I am sat with him in the clubhouse.

Appendix C says 'Handicap Allowances are applied to the Course Handicap as the final step in calculating a Playing Handicap (see rule 6.1 and 6.2). In general ,
In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s).
The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap.

See also Interpretation C/2 – Example 2

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Appendix C says 'Handicap Allowances are applied to the Course Handicap as the final step in calculating a Playing Handicap (see rule 6.1 and 6.2). In general ,
In general, after handicap allowances have been applied in match play formats, the player with the lowest Playing Handicap plays off zero strokes relative to the other player(s).
The other player(s) receive(s) the difference between their own Playing Handicap and that of the player with the lowest Playing Handicap.

See also Interpretation C/2 – Example 2

Which is, I believe, what I was saying. My opponent off 14 was having us difference each CH off mine (being the lowest) 14-9=5, and then take 90% of 5 = 4.5…which rounds to 5.

Whereas I knew my 4BBB PH was 8 (90% of CH). His PH is 14-1.4= 12.6 so 13. Diff in PHs is still 5. But that’s not the point. There is actually a difference before rounding and occasionally that difference will matter in the rounding.

 

[rulefan]

Exactly

 

[KenL]

Which equates to the same thing - assuming you mean 'Full difference of 90% of handicaps'!
Hcp1*0.9 - Hcp2*0.9 = (Hcp1 - Hcp2)*0.9
WHS method vs Old method

Nice factorising.?

 

[cliveb]

Nice factorising.?

Except that Foxy has forgotten that rounding errors come into play.

Which is, I believe, what I was saying. My opponent off 14 was having us difference each CH off mine (being the lowest) 14-9=5, and then take 90% of 5 = 4.5…which rounds to 5.

Whereas I knew my 4BBB PH was 8 (90% of CH). His PH is 14-1.4= 12.6 so 13. Diff in PHs is still 5. But that’s not the point. There is actually a difference before rounding and occasionally that difference will matter in the rounding.

Yes. For example, if your opponent off 14 was actually off 15, he gets either 5 or 6 shots depending on when you take the 90% and do the rounding.
So it DOES matter that you do it in the right order.