2020 Professional Golf Thread

[Grant85]

What an absolute blow up by Fleetwood on the last. A bogey on a par 5 is such a no no at that level. Handed the tournament on a plate to Im.

Sort of proved Azinger correct in his disparaging comments about the European Tour.

This is a bad take. He's playing to win. He doesn't care about protecting 2nd place. He had the distance and actually wasn't a mile off, given he was hitting 230 yards or so. Ok, so he could get up and down from 100 yards to make a playoff, but with one swing he can take care of business and give himself a putt for the win.

Taking the shot on is what separates the great players from the decent pro's and I actually think anybody in the top 10 would have taken that on (assuming they have the distance)

 

[Jacko_G]

Did you watch it?
He was in last and needed birdie, so he took on the shot. Always a risk hitting 3 wood to a small green over water.
id much rather he did than laid up and hoped to up n down from 100 yards.

Yip an absolute bottle crash of a shot.

No requirement to be that far right, failure to judge the wind/execute. Dreadful shot.

 

[Jacko_G]

This is a bad take. He's playing to win. He doesn't care about protecting 2nd place. He had the distance and actually wasn't a mile off, given he was hitting 230 yards or so. Ok, so he could get up and down from 100 yards to make a playoff, but with one swing he can take care of business and give himself a putt for the win.

Taking the shot on is what separates the great players from the decent pro's and I actually think anybody in the top 10 would have taken that on (assuming they have the distance)

And I guess Fleetwood is just a decent pecent pro then as a great player wouldn't have misjudged the shot to an extent that they put it in the drink.

Azinger was spot on.

 

[Grant85]

And I guess Fleetwood is just a decent pecent pro then as a great player wouldn't have misjudged the shot to an extent that they put it in the drink.

Azinger was spot on.

Even great players are going to miss shots by a degree here or there. No one is always going to play a perfect shot.

Fleetwood is at an elite level and will put himself in plenty of positions to win tournaments and he'll take on the shot again and sometimes he'll execute it well, sometimes he'll miss it on the right side and get away with it and sometimes he'll miss it and lose his chance.

Azinger is talking out his hole and basically not giving any value to European Tour winners or those who have come through the European Tour to get their ranking to a level where they can play a schedule across both Tours.

And remember for someone like Fleetwood, he's played the majority of his golf on the ET and only started playing PGA tour events when he was top 50 and above (with a fair chunk of the 64 events Majors and WGCs against stacked fields). He's not playing the likes of the fall series or opposite field events where a lot of US based players get their wins when the strength of field is weak.

Brendan Todd won 2 times this season on the PGA Tour. Is he better than Fleetwood?

 

[Jacko_G]

Even great players are going to miss shots by a degree here or there. No one is always going to play a perfect shot.

Fleetwood is at an elite level and will put himself in plenty of positions to win tournaments and he'll take on the shot again and sometimes he'll execute it well, sometimes he'll miss it on the right side and get away with it and sometimes he'll miss it and lose his chance.

Azinger is talking out his hole and basically not giving any value to European Tour winners or those who have come through the European Tour to get their ranking to a level where they can play a schedule across both Tours.

And remember for someone like Fleetwood, he's played the majority of his golf on the ET and only started playing PGA tour events when he was top 50 and above (with a fair chunk of the 64 events Majors and WGCs against stacked fields). He's not playing the likes of the fall series or opposite field events where a lot of US based players get their wins when the strength of field is weak.

Brendan Todd won 2 times this season on the PGA Tour. Is he better than Fleetwood?

Azinger is spot on US Tour is miles ahead of Europe.

As for Fleetwood, we'll just agree to disagree to put that shot in the water was criminal. A huge error. If you can't pull it off under pressure you shouldn't be taking it on.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I'm glad Fleetwood took on the shot, it showed his intent was to win rather than just play for a good position & therefore cash.
It was a poor shot though, and will only add to the questions about his winning temperament (or lack there of).

 

[Grant85]

Azinger is spot on US Tour is miles ahead of Europe.

As for Fleetwood, we'll just agree to disagree to put that shot in the water was criminal. A huge error. If you can't pull it off under pressure you shouldn't be taking it on.

Azinger said Fleetwood needs a PGA Tour win because wins on 'that tour' don't mean anything.

Completely ignorant and wrong.

Yes - most PGA tour events have bigger purses and deeper fields than most European events and most top players want status on the PGA Tour as opposed to the European Tour. But Fleetwoods last win was the Nedbank in SA last year.

A big event with a deep field - I reckon a much deeper field than the Honda had and probably a good chunk more money.

So his point was almost instantly disproved as nonsense. Whether it's Fleetwood, Westwood, Rose, Garcia, Rahm who all have global schedules and win all over the world, imo these are better and more rounded players than the likes of Brendan Todd who has 2 PGA Tour wins this season, but probably well under half of the prize money Tommy has won in the same period.

 

[Reemul]

Azinger is spot on US Tour is miles ahead of Europe.

As for Fleetwood, we'll just agree to disagree to put that shot in the water was criminal. A huge error. If you can't pull it off under pressure you shouldn't be taking it on.

The failure to not try it is what would relegate him to the mid ranks and is why he should have taken it on. You don't get to that position by not being good. The fact he missed and lost is not the ends of the world he will get more chances.

The PGA Tour is of a better standard than the ET but no need to be disparaging about the ET. What would be interesting is for the US tour to come play the ET for a whole season, you know foreign countries, food, dodgy weather and so on and see if they do actually dominate it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

The failure to not try it is what would relegate him to the mid ranks and is why he should have taken it on. You don't get to that position by not being good. The fact he missed and lost is not the ends of the world he will get more chances.

The PGA Tour is of a better standard than the ET but no need to be disparaging about the ET. What would be interesting is for the US tour to come play the ET for a whole season, you know foreign countries, food, dodgy weather and so on and see if they do actually dominate it.

And it was the likes of Westwood, Garcia, Donald, Fleetwood et al who got their grounding on the ET and still managed to get into the worlds top 50 before playing more and more events in the US. Nothing wrong with Fleetwood taking it on and just unfortunate he couldn't pull it off. I'd rather watch any golfer (UK, European or American) take a shot on and go for the win rather than playing safe. That is what makes watching golf on TV exciting

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I remember the lambasting Jamie Donaldson got at Doral.
A birdie on 18 would have gotten him into a playoff, whilst a bogie still got him tied 2nd place.
He laid up and failed to get up & down. Safe bogie, and one of his best ever results.

After his drive, Tommy had to go for it, he just hit a bad shot (as many winners on the USPGA tour have done over the years). Just have to remember the US press called Faldo "Foldo" for a while, because he couldn't get over the line.

 

[sunshine]

Azinger's comments were very arrogant, you could tell that Radar was wound up by them. No question the PGA Tour has deeper fields week in week out, but the European Tour Rolex events are pretty strong and offer more variety (challenge?) is terms of courses and set up.

 

[sunshine]

Regarding Fleetwood, I thought he kept his nerve for 17 holes, especially after his bogeys. It's a tough course and everyone made mistakes, but he kept going.

But the approach on 18 was a school boy error. The top players pull off those pressure shots, or hit a shot that takes the right side out of play. Miss left and he still could have got up and down for birdie, miss right and it was curtains.

 

[Jacko_G]

Reality check required. PGA tour is miles ahead of Europe.

The quality of fields is night and day above 95% of European Union event fields. Azinger as far as I can see only told the truth, whether he delivered it in the correct manner is another debate.

 

[fundy]

Reality check required. PGA tour is miles ahead of Europe.

The quality of fields is night and day above 95% of European Union event fields. Azinger as far as I can see only told the truth, whether he delivered it in the correct manner is another debate.

he gave an opinion not a truth, just as you are now

 

[Jacko_G]

he gave an opinion not a truth, just as you are now

Sorry but that is tripe. US Tour is miles ahead of the European Tour in terms of strength and depth, prize money, sponsorship, set up etc etc.

That is a fact.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Reality check required. PGA tour is miles ahead of Europe.

The quality of fields is night and day above 95% of European Union event fields. Azinger as far as I can see only told the truth, whether he delivered it in the correct manner is another debate.

Clear difference between “opinion” and “truth”
What the PGA is though is richer which allows bigger prize money and it will attract some of the higher ranked players but “night and day” ? Nah - i suspect it’s a lot closer than people suggest - a lot of the PGA tour is target golf , certainly seems to me to be harder courses at times on the ET

As for Fleetwood - he is clearly a world class talent and that doesn’t change after yesterday - he has won competitions on the ET with bigger and better fields than what they had in Honda this week.

And Azinger just speaks his normal bias

What is better on the ET - is the respect from the crowds

Shame the US crowds werent more respectable when Fleetwood was going for it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1234251100171227136

 

[Jacko_G]

Yeah but sadly your Fleetwood choke excuse doesn't hold water when he's already on record saying he didn't hear the shout.

Just a dreadful execution under pressure and as a result handed the tournament on a plate.

As for Azinger. I'll stick with my opinion that he is 100% spot on.

 

[Grant85]

Sorry but that is tripe. US Tour is miles ahead of the European Tour in terms of strength and depth, prize money, sponsorship, set up etc etc.

That is a fact.

That's fine if you think that, but if Fleetwood plays a full schedule on the ET he's playing events in Oman, Victoria, Hong Kong, Denmark, Portugal... etc. a host of 2nd tier events with very few top 50 players, and he'll win his fair share most seasons probably.

Similar if he plays a full schedule on the PGA Tour, he's playing the Fall series as well as a host of smaller events with weaker fields.

As it is he plays across both tours so he's playing the biggest event in the world on any week he tees it up. That's true for most of the top 50, especially those who have European Tour membership to keep going.

The biggest Euro events that these guys play (Rolex series) will probably all be bigger than the Honda in terms of prize money and depth of field.

Ultimately Azinger was making the point to belittle the European Tour and try and exert superiority of US Golf over European Golf. He did it with zero class and actually very little understanding of the Rolex events and the type of fields they attract.

 

[fundy]

Yeah but sadly your Fleetwood choke excuse doesn't hold water when he's already on record saying he didn't hear the shout.

Just a dreadful execution under pressure and as a result handed the tournament on a plate.

As for Azinger. I'll stick with my opinion that he is 100% spot on.

good to see youve realised its an opinion

 

[Grant85]

FYI

For winning the Nedbank on the European Tour, Tommy Fleetwood won 2.268 million Euros.
For winning the Honda Classic on the US PGA Tour, Sungjae Im won 1.26 million US Dollars.