Your thoughts on our CSS please

[bladeplayer]

Hi Guys & Girls just wanted ye'r opinion on a conversation Chopper007 & I were having today ..

Most of the time this year when playing stableford off the whites our CSS is 38 pts .. so you have to shoot 3 better than your handicap for a cut ..

on a good few occasions this year tho our CSS has been 39pts .. been off 7 at that time it means id i would have to play to 3 & shoot 40 pts just to get a cut ... & you got .1 for 36 points

How does that sound to ye ?

What is the average normal stableford comp css at your place ...

Just curious on your thoughts please & thanks

 

[duncan mackie]

Hi Guys & Girls just wanted ye'r opinion on a conversation Chopper007 & I were having today ..


on a good few occasions this year tho our CSS has been 39pts .. been off 7 at that time it means id i would have to play to 3 & shoot 40 pts just to get a cut

How does that sound to ye ?

Just curious on your thoughts please & thanks

sounds like you are confusing things - off 7 you need to play to 6 or better to get cut, and if you 'played to 3' you would be cut 0.8

 

[bladeplayer]

sounds like you are confusing things - off 7 you need to play to 6 or better to get cut, and if you 'played to 3' you would be cut 0.8

could be mate could be , would me playing to 6 not be 37 points ? genuine question please forgive my ignorance of it

 

[One Planer]

I. Will. Resist.

 

[Ethan]

Hi Guys & Girls just wanted ye'r opinion on a conversation Chopper007 & I were having today ..

Most of the time this year when playing stableford off the whites our CSS is 38 pts .. so you have to shoot 3 better than your handicap for a cut ..

on a good few occasions this year tho our CSS has been 39pts .. been off 7 at that time it means id i would have to play to 3 & shoot 40 pts just to get a cut ... & you got .1 for 36 points

How does that sound to ye ?

What is the average normal stableford comp css at your place ...

Just curious on your thoughts please & thanks

I think you are confused about what playing to your handicap means. 36 points is not playing to your handicap. Playing to CSS or SSS is. It may be that your course has a tough base SSS, and if so, CSS should go up ( needing fewer points), but if it often goes down, then that would suggest a soft SSS.

Our place is par 72, 6500 yards off the whites, SSS 71, which probably goes up to 72 about half the time. It doesn't go down to 70 often, if at all. Recently we played a comp off the blacks (6900 yards), almost all single figure players, par 72, SSS 72 and CSS went up to 75.

 

[JustOne]

36 points is not playing to your handicap. Playing to CSS or SSS is.

Indeed. If the course is playing easy (because a lot of other players are shooting scores lower than their 'apparent' handicap) then YOU should be doing that too.

That said, knowing on the first tee that you're gonna have to make some birdies just because the course is apparently playing 'easy' doesn't half put the pressure on!!

 

[duncan mackie]

could be mate could be , would me playing to 6 not be 37 points ? genuine question please forgive my ignorance of it

playing to CSS is playing to your handicap on the day - 36 has absolutely no relevance (unless it happens to represent the CSS!)

we have 5 measured courses taking into account different competiton tees and courses - the stableford points eq to SSS for each is 34, 35, 37, 40 and 42........CSS could be as much as 37,38,40,43 and 45 - or as low as 33, 34,36, 39 and 41

the obvious example is playing 2 courses of 18 x par 4's - one having 18 x 270 yd holes and the other having 18 x 470 yd holes. If playing to your handicap was scoring 36 points the same player wouldn't have the same handicap on each course!

 

[Birchy]

We dont do stableford but sss is 70 off a par of 72. This means in essence CSS is usually 38 points.

Handicaps are calculated off SSS though not par.

 

[bladeplayer]

I. Will. Resist.

No fire away Gar , i dont know thats why im asking so any and all answers are apreciated

I think you are confused about what playing to your handicap means. 36 points is not playing to your handicap. Playing to CSS or SSS is. It may be that your course has a tough base SSS, and if so, CSS should go up ( needing fewer points), but if it often goes down, then that would suggest a soft SSS.

Our place is par 72, 6500 yards off the whites, SSS 71, which probably goes up to 72 about half the time. It doesn't go down to 70 often, if at all. Recently we played a comp off the blacks (6900 yards), almost all single figure players, par 72, SSS 72 and CSS went up to 75.

First to admit i dont know Ethan & thanks for the reply.. this is prob a silly question so please bear with me , , im playing off 8 now ok .. so i bogey index's 1-8 and par indexes 9-18 thats me shooting 8 over par playing to my actual handicap and gets me 36
points ..

Again apologies if its a stupid question

 

[bladeplayer]

playing to CSS is playing to your handicap on the day - 36 has absolutely no relevance (unless it happens to represent the CSS!)

we have 5 measured courses taking into account different competiton tees and courses - the stableford points eq to SSS for each is 34, 35, 37, 40 and 42........CSS could be as much as 37,38,40,43 and 45 - or as low as 33, 34,36, 39 and 41

the obvious example is playing 2 courses of 18 x par 4's - one having 18 x 270 yd holes and the other having 18 x 470 yd holes. If playing to your handicap was scoring 36 points the same player wouldn't have the same handicap on each course!

Thank you Duncan

 

[duncan mackie]

Thank you Duncan

you are welcome Sir.

 

[pbrown7582]

What is your course SSS and par?

 

[JezzE]

This one does come up a lot doesn't it, and as duncan, Ethan and others have suggested, 36 points is not playing to your handicap, but because at many courses SSS = par, it's often been taken to mean that

As for duncan's point (an extreme, but very useful example admittedly) of 18 x 270-yarders versus 18 x 470-yarders, I have had this argument regularly with an otherwise intelligent man, and he just could not see that shooting level par round one might not necessarily make you as good a golfer as shooting lever par round the other

Truly baffling...

 

[NWJocko]

I thought CSS could only come down by 1?

It may be the use of points as an indicator as I never think of CSS in those terms..... Wouldn't moving from 38 to 39 points be the equivalent of moving from SSS -1 to SSS -2?

Apologies if this is a dumb question!

 

[rosecott]

I thought CSS could only come down by 1?

It may be the use of points as an indicator as I never think of CSS in those terms..... Wouldn't moving from 38 to 39 points be the equivalent of moving from SSS -1 to SSS -2?

Apologies if this is a dumb question!

Not if SSS is 2 less than par, then 38 points is playing to handicap and 39 if CSS moves down one.

 

[NWJocko]

Not if SSS is 2 less than par, then 38 points is playing to handicap and 39 if CSS moves down one.

Thanks, was a dumb question. Just never think of CSS in terms of points.......

 

[AlbertsTache]

CSS is a stupid invention, par is par

 

[Liverbirdie]

Hi Guys & Girls just wanted ye'r opinion on a conversation Chopper007 & I were having today ..

Most of the time this year when playing stableford off the whites our CSS is 38 pts .. so you have to shoot 3 better than your handicap for a cut ..

on a good few occasions this year tho our CSS has been 39pts .. been off 7 at that time it means id i would have to play to 3 & shoot 40 pts just to get a cut ... & you got .1 for 36 points

How does that sound to ye ?

What is the average normal stableford comp css at your place ...

Just curious on your thoughts please & thanks

Excuses,excuses......

I'm up to 6.5 at the mo, in the HFH comp. Still time for you to get that big late cut.......

 

[JustOne]

CSS is a stupid invention, par is par

Not quite the same if your course has a par 4 at 284yds and mine has one at 484yds, one is often a 3 and the other is often a 5.

Shooting level par on a 7,200yrd course is not the same as level par on a 5,500yrd course.

 

[Foxholer]

Would scoring 36 points off the Yellow (or even Ladies) tees be as good as scoring 36 points off the Whites? That's the equivalent within a course to the SSS versus Par across every course.

In order to standardise handicaps across golf courses, Congu has rated each course each course - which is the SSS.

On tough courses, this rating (SSS) will be greater than easier courses. Yours is deemed easier than standard - by 2 shots. I know someone who played off 4 who struggled to get lower because he too had to shoot 38 points. Depending on the course and the type of golfer, high or low SSS courses can be flattering or unflattering to different levels of golfers.

CSS is SSS 'statistically adjusted for conditions on the day'. So if more than expected score well, the CSS can reduce - by 1; if fewer than expected, then CSS can go up by up to 3, then the comp is deemed too tough and becomes Reduction Only.

@Jeez. That's the way I've managed to get the concept across to those 'otherwise intelligent' guys who can't understand why every Par 72 isn't the same! ell, that and the habit of some tour to change Par! You are correct btw. Common sense and Golf are very often strangers!