Your Club's Course Rating & Slope Index

[rulefan]

But his Index (a Slope term) isn't 9.5! 9.5 is his Congu Handicap! And

That's why I faffed about with the Calculator to get the first Index that would result in 'cap being 10 at ME - just as 9.5 is the first value that does.

You are using an assumption that Congu Handicap = Slope Index (?), something tat is very rarely the case (only likely for players near Scratch).

DRW is in the UK so has (I assume) an Exact CONGU Handicap.

The correct terms in the USGA system are
1) Course related - Course Rating, Bogey Rating and Slope Rating
2) Player related - Handicap Index and Course Handicap

Course Rating is loosely CONGU SSS
Handicap Index - Exact Handicap
Course Handicap - Playing Handicap (with adjustment for Slope)

I understand that it is expected that a CONGU handicap will be very close to the resultant Handicap Index when all the machinations have been completed.

 

[Foxholer]

Isn't the point of the slope rating to take account of the fact that the difficulty of a course can be different for scratch and bogey golfers?

Indeed it is. Courses are rated (for Slope) for 2 sets of players....Scratch, which produces the Rating - pretty much equivalent to Congu's SSS - and for projected scores of a 'Bogey' golfer (18-capper-ish in Congu).

A course with a SSS lower than par (ie. "easy for scratch golfers") isn't necessarly also easy for bogey golfers - in which case it may very well have a low course rating but a relatively high slope rating. I'm very much hoping this will be the case on my home course, which has a ridiculously low SSS (mainly because it's short) but is very tricky for handicap golfers.

That may or may not end up being the case. Each course is likely to be different.

 

[rulefan]

I am going to do some reading up as quite interested to understand fully what it all means

Here is a pretty good layman's explanation. It's not 100% but easier to get to grips with than the USGA manuals

http://www.leaderboard.com/abcs.htm

 

[Foxholer]

DRW is in the UK so has (I assume) an Exact CONGU Handicap.

The correct terms in the USGA system are
1) Course related - Course Rating, Bogey Rating and Slope Rating
2) Player related - Handicap Index and Course Handicap

I understand that it is expected that a CONGU handicap will be very close to the resultant Handicap Index when all the machinations have been completed.

I thought you may have made that assumption! My (fairly considerable, as I've played in NZ that operates Slope) experience of Slope vs Congu differs from that expectation! Handicap Index is invariably lower than Congu Handicap!

However, it should only be a short time (say 6 months depending on how often individuals play) before the differences are eliminated.

 

[OLgolfer]

Interesting thread...

So, my home course is sloped 137 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. My exact handicap is 9.3, and when I input this into the USGA course handicap calculator I get 11 shots for both tees!

So there is an overlap.

Why would I then play off the whites when I get the same number of shots off the yellows (if I had the choice and wanted to score well)

The SSS is 2 shots different between the tees.

I understand the theory but doesn’t make sense in practice

 

[louise_a]

Your Handicap index will not be based on your own course slope it will be based on 113, so you cannot use your existing handicap to calculate anything!

 

[OLgolfer]

Your Handicap index will not be based on your own course slope it will be based on 113, so you cannot use your existing handicap to calculate anything!

Can you explain a bit more, I’m not following. What handicap would I input?

 

[duncan mackie]

Interesting thread...

So, my home course is sloped 137 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. My exact handicap is 9.3, and when I input this into the USGA course handicap calculator I get 11 shots for both tees!

So there is an overlap.

Why would I then play off the whites when I get the same number of shots off the yellows (if I had the choice and wanted to score well)

The SSS is 2 shots different between the tees.

I understand the theory but doesn’t make sense in practice

Because you also have to take into account the course rating of the tees used as well....in most cases they will closely match the existing SSS.

 

[OLgolfer]

Because you also have to take into account the course rating of the tees used as well....in most cases they will closely match the existing SSS.

This is true. The course ratings for both sets of tees are very close to the current SSS.

But then for the actual course (playing) handicap from which I calculate my stableford points on will be the same.

Am I missing something..?

 

[Captainron]

I have absolutely no idea what any of this means 😂

Some courses are hillier than others 😂😂

 

[rulefan]

Interesting thread...

So, my home course is sloped 137 off the whites and 130 off the yellows. My exact handicap is 9.3, and when I input this into the USGA course handicap calculator I get 11 shots for both tees!

So there is an overlap.

Why would I then play off the whites when I get the same number of shots off the yellows (if I had the choice and wanted to score well)

The SSS is 2 shots different between the tees.

I understand the theory but doesn’t make sense in practice

Rounding is one culprit. Whites = 11.27 yellows = 10.69
You haven't said what the Course Ratings (SSS) are.

But the system is expecting you as a 9 capper to play to the same net differential (ie 11) on both tees because the yellows are relatively easier for you vs a scratch player

 

[User20204]

<reading this trying so very hard to understand it but just not getting any of it>

 

[OLgolfer]

Rounding is one culprit. Whites = 11.27 yellows = 10.69
You haven't said what the Course Ratings (SSS) are.

But the system is expecting you as a 9 capper to play to the same net differential (ie 11) on both tees because the yellows are relatively easier for you vs a scratch player

Whites: course rating 73.6 (slope 137). Current SSS: 74
Yellows: course rating 71.9 (slope 130). Current SSS: 72

👍

 

[duncan mackie]

This is true. The course ratings for both sets of tees are very close to the current SSS.

But then for the actual course (playing) handicap from which I calculate my stableford points on will be the same.

Am I missing something..?

Only that for handicapping you will be referencing your differential based on the relationship between par and the course ratings in exactly the same way as currently.
The only difference is in any tweaking of the handicap for the slope - in your case with 130 and 137 it's simply saying that there is an additional difficulty for the bogey golfer across the 2 tees for the bogey golfer - but it's not that great eg. a shot at 18.

 

[OLgolfer]

Only that for handicapping you will be referencing your differential based on the relationship between par and the course ratings in exactly the same way as currently.
The only difference is in any tweaking of the handicap for the slope - in your case with 130 and 137 it's simply saying that there is an additional difficulty for the bogey golfer across the 2 tees for the bogey golfer - but it's not that great eg. a shot at 18.

Thanks. Sorry to go on... but

So if I’m playing a stableford comp then I’d be getting 11 shots on both tees..? Or for a medal my net score would be my gross minus 11..?

For handicap it would only count if my score is one of the best 8 of my last 20 played or submitted..?

 

[louise_a]

I have gone back through my last 20 scores and picked out the best 8 gross scores, the average score is 83.1, the course rating is 73.1 so my average gross differential is exactly 11.0. My course is rated 129, so the 11 must be multiplied by 113/129 to get my handicap index, which comes out at 9.6.

 

[User20204]

I have gone back through my last 20 scores and picked out the best 8 gross scores, the average score is 83.1, the course rating is 73.1 so my average gross differential is exactly 11.0. My course is rated 129, so the 11 must be multiplied by 113/129 to get my handicap index, which comes out at 9.6.

I'm guessing they were all off of the same tees ? It's difficult for me to do that as we regularly play from 3 different tees, I've also got 5 x NR in my last 20

 

[rulefan]

I'm guessing they were all off of the same tees ? It's difficult for me to do that as we regularly play from 3 different tees.

Tees are taken into account

 

[OLgolfer]

Tees are taken into account

How..? Is each individual score (from the 8) multiplied by the slope differential for the tee that it was played from..?

So for me. I shoot a gross 84 from the white tees. My handicap score would be 8.6:

84 - 73.6 (course rating) = 10.4 x (113 / 137 (slope) ) = 8.6


And... I seem to remember reading that your average of 8 rounds is multiplied by 96%. Just to confuse things.

 

[rulefan]

I'm afraid I don't know the details of the algorithm and believe there is a deal of tuning. But I hope to know more later.

But I can't really get excited about it. How many players' handicaps are accurate to 1 or 2 strokes anyway?