Your Club's Course Rating & Slope Index

[duncan mackie]

Was just explaining to my playing partners today how our Ladies Red-tee is tougher than the Men's Blues. (see attachment)
Is this the same at anyone else's course?
Very tough for them it would appear.
You certainly wouldn't get many of our men happy to play every round off the Blues. In fact some won't even play on those days.
No wonder we have problems retaining lady members!! & why they do well at away courses.... strong h/caps!!

I take it that the ratings shown are for Ladies? That's pretty normal. We have tees rated for both and the difference is normally about 5 ie it's rated 73 for the ladies and 68 for the men (actually the red tees are a difference of 6 at ours)

 

[2blue]

Yes the rating for red is the Ladies...... same Course Rating of 72 but a much more severe Slope. Can we not compare that directly to our Men's Blue tees of 72 Course & much less Slope?

 

[rulefan]

The ladies SSS/CR is not very different to the men's for the scratch player (except for the odd 629 yard 2nd hole). It's relative shortness brings the SSS down to the men's. Usually the ladies' is a few strokes higher than the men's
But the reds are relatively more difficult as handicaps go up.

As it happens I did the rating for the men's and joined the ladies team for the reds

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes the rating for red is the Ladies...... same Course Rating of 72 but a much more severe Slope. Can we not compare that directly to our Men's Blue tees of 72 Course & much less Slope?

I'm not sure what you mean by comparing!

If you had two players, one lady and one gent, both with handicap indexes of 12.0 competing in a match with the gent of your Blue and lady off Red there would be no shots given. If they had an index of 18.0 the lady would get one stroke.

For me the real comparison comes when they are both playing from the same tee....at which point you would normally see the lady getting around 5 shots. If you then use that to compare across the other tees you could argue that the men's blue tees are playing 5 strokes harder than the ladies tees (for men).

 

[rulefan]

As above. If we had rated the blues for ladies the CR/SSS would probably be 3-5 strokes higher.

Oddly the Leeds Golf Centre website doesn't seem to give the course length(s)

 

[2blue]

I'm not sure what you mean by comparing!

If you had two players, one lady and one gent, both with handicap indexes of 12.0 competing in a match with the gent of your Blue and lady off Red there would be no shots given. If they had an index of 18.0 the lady would get one stroke.

For me the real comparison comes when they are both playing from the same tee....at which point you would normally see the lady getting around 5 shots. If you then use that to compare across the other tees you could argue that the men's blue tees are playing 5 strokes harder than the ladies tees (for men).

Comparison'' may not have been the best word top use.
I was simply trying to get an idea of how difficult our course is for the ladies playing from the Reds &, above, you seem to have done that. For a 12 H/capper lady it's the same degree of difficulty as the men have when they play off the Blues... which is only about 5 times a year!! So the 12 H/cap ladies (we may have 1 or 2) are experiencing that level of difficulty each week & the higher H/cappers even more so.
So to encourage (ie simplify the challenge) for our higher H/cap ladies & as we've got many junior girls coming through,I guess we'd need to look towards developing a shorter tee than Reds..... is that so?

As above. If we had rated the blues for ladies the CR/SSS would probably be 3-5 strokes higher.

Oddly the Leeds Golf Centre website doesn't seem to give the course length(s)

RF.... Very interesting indeed that you helped rate Wike ...... I can now see why we probs don't need the Yellows rating for the ladies but more likely a more forward one as mentioned above..... what do you think?... were you also asked to provide any advice regarding this? Though I think we'll need separate cards for Men & Woman

 

[rulefan]

At a very rough estimate the biues would have rated 78 for the ladies !!!

We always ask clubs about any additional ratings eg yellow for ladies, reds for men or even installing additional tees. A few have put in short greens (ie colour not putting greens) which we have rated for men and ladies. We also suggest getting 9 hole ratings (just a paper excercise)

 

[jim8flog]

Was just explaining to my playing partners today how our Ladies Red-tee is tougher than the Men's Blues. (see attachment)
Is this the same at anyone else's course?
Very tough for them it would appear.

Our ladies SSS is 2 over the par
Our men's whites is 1 under the par

 

[duncan mackie]

As above. If we had rated the blues for ladies the CR/SSS would probably be 3-5 strokes higher.

Oddly the Leeds Golf Centre website doesn't seem to give the course length(s)

I've not seen it but based on the data presented alone I would bet on at least 5 or more likely 6....

On 2blue's other point - definitely. A set of properly placed junior tees are vital; they don't need to be rated as people quickly move through to the shorter main tees with the high handicap levels available.

We also introduced green tees last year, and they sit between red and yellow for distance.

 

[rulefan]

I've not seen it but based on the data presented alone I would bet on at least 5 or more likely 6....

Yes. See #127

 

[duncan mackie]

Yes. See #127

Apologies - responding to your first answer I missed the follow up!
The team finished up at our course yesterday (most of the real work was done months ago but there was an issue around some plates) and I'm looking forward to the results. I have some numbers in mind...

 

[rulefan]

Apologies - responding to your first answer I missed the follow up!
The team finished up at our course yesterday (most of the real work was done months ago but there was an issue around some plates) and I'm looking forward to the results. I have some numbers in mind...

A common revisit is to check that the permanent distance tee markers are positioned sufficiently far forward of the clear ground where the teeing areas will be placed. 4 yards if I remember rightly.

 

[duncan mackie]

A common revisit is to check that the permanent distance tee markers are positioned sufficiently far forward of the clear ground where the teeing areas will be placed. 4 yards if I remember rightly.

Yes it's now 4yds - and they had already been moved to comply 👍
In this case we had rebuilt a couple of tees, and added one new one, and their was some confusion over the plates on those when they first visited...shouldnt have happened but it did. 🤐

 

[IanG]

Bit late to the party but here's the ratings from our place on the new scorecards. Whites are the normal medal tees, blues the workaday gents tees, reds the traditional 'ladies' tees and the yellows are for a short 'juniors' course. Blues reds and yellows are rated for both gents and ladies so provides a comparison. Yardages in the second image.

 

[duncan mackie]

Bit late to the party but here's the ratings from our place on the new scorecards. Whites are the normal medal tees, blues the workaday gents tees, reds the traditional 'ladies' tees and the yellows are for a short 'juniors' course. Blues reds and yellows are rated for both gents and ladies so provides a comparison. Yardages in the second image.

View attachment 27389
View attachment 27390

Really excellent example of a good range of tees, including multi ratings.
The underlying difference in CR across m/f of 5 for normal range yardages fits with earlier discussions - suspect if your white or blacks were rated they would be up at 6, and of course your yellows are well under normal range (but a sensible addition IMO) and reflected in only 4 difference.