winter rules on the green
- Thread starter dejf
- Start date
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
The notices and the email are clear to everyone what the local rule is and no problems have been encountered
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Leaving the flag is more about stopping people attending the flag which then stops people standing around the hole for a period of time which could cause issue on wet greens
But you can't describe it as a "local rule" as that in itself is giving it some authoritative definition and decision, as rulefan states, it can be an unwritten but generally understood' club rule but I doubt it could be enforced as it goes against The Rules of Golf and only 1 body can change them!
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Its part of our local winter rules and clearly posted on the board.
It is enforced by the club due any non comp round
At the end of the day it makes no difference
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Taunton and Pickerage have the same idea but it's not a local rule just a general notice on the NB and a notice on the first tee. A local rule normally has specific wording with a rule number quoted.
Foxholer
Blackballed
(Southern) England is rather marginal re whether it's worthwhile to allow play on soaked greens with the possibility of causing damage to the green - but there's pressure on clubs to do so in order to get play at all (money into the club) or to provide value for money for members! Course I'm playing at tomorrow (Brocket Hall) require flag to be left in over the Winter! This, of course, breaks a Rule of Golf, so precludes Qualifying comps, Supplementary Rounds or Cards for Handicap over the period! Comps can still be played though I don't think they do. Doesn't affect our Social game (or Swindles/Roll-ups if they had any), so no great problem!
Does Pinner Hill also have the 'Rule'? Edit: As Old Skier posted, I believe it's not so much Local Rule as Notice!
Many London clubs do, especially older ones that haven't got USGA spec (almost 100% sand based) greens as the soil in most of South is Clay based and the greens were constructed (from what I understand) using the clay base as a bowl (to gather water as pre irrigation!), rocks, finer gravel, then soil and sand for top layer. Works pretty well to retain any water (from rain) in Summer, but actually gathers (or can't cope with) the water in Winter! Modern greens use irrigation onto sand dominated greens, with drainage to remove the 'excess'! These 'older' clubs didn't foresee the amount of use their courses would get over Winter - as membership of a Golf club was not something for 'the masses/plebs'! Brocket Hall is actually a 'modern' course, but I'm happy to obey their rule s the greens are normally superb! They also use roping the way it should be done - changing it frequently to spread wear, which happens at the corner, rather than just protecting certain areas!
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My impression when putting on our practice green, when I normally leave the mini flags in, is that the ball sometimes rattles between the stick and the lip of the hole and comes out, when you might expect the putt to go in. On the other hand I scored an Eagle a few weeks ago when my rather over strong pitch shot hit the flag stick halfway up and dropped straight into the hole! Leaving the flagstick in the hole would save an awful lot of time and faffing around removing or attending the flag, and would considerably reduce footfall around the hole, therefore reducing wear and tear to the green, especially for soft wet greens in Winter. We are already getting holes which resemble mini Volcanos and are somewhat putt repellent!
dejf
Assistant Pro
Frankly, I do not know
I just know we are playing with the flag in the hole if a player wants to. And even when playing to submit card on handicap, having a flag in is not considered as a problem - as I was about to submit my card last time I played and I was about to finish the hole from much less than 1 ft and someone from the flight told me "not to worry about the flag". But as I never heard about such thing while playing in CR, I was not comfortable finishing the hole with flag in the hole, so I removed it, finished, and put back for others, and I am glad I did that rulefan
Tour Winner
The USGA/R&A obviously do because they reinstated the rule.
My club recommended leaving the flag in the hole for friendly games a couple of years ago, but made it clear that it didn't apply to qualifying comps.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
I think the thread got a bit bogged down with what one might term "Club rules" as opposed to "Rules of Golf" or "Local Rules (of golf)". But I think we're past it now.
Funnily enough, last weekend I was in a 4bbb match - all three of the others believed that leaving the flag in was an option. Admittedly they were claiming it only in respect of temporary greens, but even so...
I think I managed to persuade two of them that it was a no-no and against the RoG, but the third still remained unconvinced.
Funnily enough, last weekend I was in a 4bbb match - all three of the others believed that leaving the flag in was an option. Admittedly they were claiming it only in respect of temporary greens, but even so...
I think I managed to persuade two of them that it was a no-no and against the RoG, but the third still remained unconvinced.
dejf
Assistant Pro
I agree with you
As mentioned, I have never seen this before - not even as a recommendation for non-comp rounds.
It was that much surprising that I created a topic here - yes, THAT much
KenL
Tour Rookie
If someone standing by the hole to remove the flag (or to pick your ball out of the hole) is damaging the greens then...
a). They need to change pin positions more often.
or...
b). You should be on temporary greens.
a). They need to change pin positions more often.
or...
b). You should be on temporary greens.
BTatHome
Tour Winner
hard to see this saving an awful lot of time like you suggest. Also can't see that how it changes the footfall around the hole by much at all.Leaving the flagstick in the hole would save an awful lot of time and faffing around removing or attending the flag, and would considerably reduce footfall around the hole, therefore reducing wear and tear to the green, especially for soft wet greens in Winter. We are already getting holes which resemble mini Volcanos and are somewhat putt repellent!
Surely most groups only remove and reinstate the flag once ... and even then the person doing so is quite ignorant if the stand so close to the hole to cause issues to the green
.... maybe I'm just lucky to play on decent greens
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
+1
I don't agree that flag tending is a major cause of footfall around the hole at all. Yes, it causes some but the vast majority, and the major cause of "crowned holes" is the player picking the ball out of the hole putting all his (often considerable) weight on one foot about a foot from the hole. This happens every time a player holes out. Tending, on the other hand, half the time doesn't even happen and then most players observe the etiquette of standing well away from the hole (holding the flag at arms length etc). I'd be surprised if more that 20% of the footfall is due to tending (made up stat alert!!) so any "rule" to leave the flag in is at best having quite a minor effect.
rulefan
Tour Winner
+1 +1
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
I'll stick to the beliefs of professional greenkeepers - it's the job they are qualified to do - if they suggest it to have a bit of relief and protection then it works for me
Robobum
Money List Winner
Maybe you're being a bit gullible Phil?
I'd wager that bending down to get a ball out of the hole means you stand closer the the hole than reaching to get the flag.......not to mention using our putters as a crutch to steady ourselves when picking the ball out.
upsidedown
Tour Winner
Perhaps we all need to invest in those rubbery sucker jobbies on the end of seniors putters to keep us away from the hole 
