Winter Golf and Handicap

[sjw]

Really? What are the alternatives? Allowing clubs to choose which comps count and which do not (which apparently some clubs are doing), or worse, allowing players to pick and choose which scores they submit for handicapping?

First BIB - exactly that. What harm does it do?

Second BIB - not sure how that is an alternative. Players would know going in to the tournament if its qualifying or not, just as they do now.

 

[Swango1980]

Really? What are the alternatives? Allowing clubs to choose which comps count and which do not (which apparently some clubs are doing), or worse, allowing players to pick and choose which scores they submit for handicapping?

Regarding your second point:

Players can pick or choose which social rounds they submit for handicap. Why would it suddenly become controversial if the round is a competition round?

 

[rulefan]

Regarding your second point:

Players can pick or choose which social rounds they submit for handicap. Why would it suddenly become controversial if the round is a competition round?

I suspect you may have misread the post. It is not about entering a competition but about returning scores.

 

[2blue]

I think they do - the 12 handicapper's game has deteriorated and is no longer a 12. But a 17. The system is reflecting their decreased standard of golf. Not marooning them on 13 as UHS would have done.

This is me exactly... in Oct 2022 I suffered a very heavy fall that disturbed lower vertebrates & developed sciatic problems & some mobility. At that time I was HI 11.6 When the Q season restarted in April 2023 I put in Comp & general Cards as usual. I went through the soft cap & then the hard at 16.6 having spent 10 months following the physios exercises & joining a gym to increase strength. This would have been impossible in UHS. During that time I had some really good rounds when my medication & attitude were in the right place winning the Leeds Vets Cup for 70+ & being placed in a few B/Ball pairs events. The increase in HI came from submitted rounds rather than an appeal to the H/cap Committee so the 'embarrassment' of getting it that way was avoided. I'm now at HI 17.5 & a bit of a bandit as my work in the Gym is beginning to pay off though I am having to make use of a trekking pole to get around 18 holes in these demanding conditions. My 20th score is on July 24th so most of my good Summer scores prior to the injury have now gone. I'm scoring really well in pairs & hopefully tomorrow in a Trophy individual Comp.
At my Club WHS has been a massive success though we've had to put quite a number of Comp conditions in place to 'protect' Board & Trophy Comps though we were already doing that under UHS.

 

[sunshine]

You can't have read all of his posts.

I take it back. I read a few more posts and discovered he accused the rain of being xenophobic.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I take it back. I read a few more posts and discovered he accused the rain of being xenophobic.

yeah that's what I said

 

[Deleted member 30522]

This is me exactly... in Oct 2022 I suffered a very heavy fall that disturbed lower vertebrates & developed sciatic problems & some mobility. At that time I was HI 11.6 When the Q season restarted in April 2023 I put in Comp & general Cards as usual. I went through the soft cap & then the hard at 16.6 having spent 10 months following the physios exercises & joining a gym to increase strength. This would have been impossible in UHS. During that time I had some really good rounds when my medication & attitude were in the right place winning the Leeds Vets Cup for 70+ & being placed in a few B/Ball pairs events. The increase in HI came from submitted rounds rather than an appeal to the H/cap Committee so the 'embarrassment' of getting it that way was avoided. I'm now at HI 17.5 & a bit of a bandit as my work in the Gym is beginning to pay off though I am having to make use of a trekking pole to get around 18 holes in these demanding conditions. My 20th score is on July 24th so most of my good Summer scores prior to the injury have now gone. I'm scoring really well in pairs & hopefully tomorrow in a Trophy individual Comp.
At my Club WHS has been a massive success though we've had to put quite a number of Comp conditions in place to 'protect' Board & Trophy Comps though we were already doing that under UHS.

But that's down to injury, which is quite different, and still underlying you'll be the same player. DO you think it's right that your handicap will artificially inflate, and then when your fitness returns you're suddenly playing off 3 or 4 too many?

Happened to me start of this year, I was 4.0 in Aug 22, wet spring affected me as I am fairly short, and not great off soft lies, I headed up and up, got a false 7.8 at one point, then as summer s]came in and things dried up I came crashing down again to.......4.0. There is no way I should have gained 4 playing shots, it was a temp issue down to weather, I've ened the season on 4.9 which is more or les where i always sit.

The upward variance in handicaps is far too much, another guy at my away club started the year on 4 and finished playing off 9, won two trophies at the end of the year and should have had a third, and this is a club that has 150+ playing every medal. His handicap was legit, but he went through a weak spell of form in mid-summer and plays a lot, I presume hit the hard cap as well.

 

[2blue]

But that's down to injury, which is quite different, and still underlying you'll be the same player. DO you think it's right that your handicap will artificially inflate, and then when your fitness returns you're suddenly playing off 3 or 4 too many?

Happened to me start of this year, I was 4.0 in Aug 22, wet spring affected me as I am fairly short, and not great off soft lies, I headed up and up, got a false 7.8 at one point, then as summer s]came in and things dried up I came crashing down again to.......4.0. There is no way I should have gained 4 playing shots, it was a temp issue down to weather, I've ened the season on 4.9 which is more or les where i always sit.

The upward variance in handicaps is far too much, another guy at my away club started the year on 4 and finished playing off 9, won two trophies at the end of the year and should have had a third, and this is a club that has 150+ playing every medal. His handicap was legit, but he went through a weak spell of form in mid-summer and plays a lot, I presume hit the hard cap as well.

Nothing artificial at all..... it's where my game is at present. Hahaha.... at 75+years fitness does not return suddenly!! I may not even get back to where I was at 11.6 so all one can do is continue to put in cards & do one's best.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

yeah that's what I said

Funny how you haven’t been jumping on people making derogatory comments about Americans or sweeping generalisations about the English!

Or even explained how my post offended you so much?

I wonder if the mods had anything to say given your accusation given another member was threatened because he told another poster not to be stupid?

Double standards all round!!!!

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Funny how you haven’t been jumping on people making derogatory comments about Americans or sweeping generalisations about the English!

Or even explained how my post offended you so much?

I wonder if the mods had anything to say given your accusation given another member was threatened because he told another poster not to be stupid?

Double standards all round!!!!

You see, I need to have seen those things for them to be a thing

As for your post, it was simply explained, surely didn't need expanded upon, trite inaccurate boring tropes are as funny as a dose of covid

 

[Patricia Mcgrath]

Well England Golf are quite clear - there should be no off-season. Providing you can still play a measured course then you can / should put cards in. They are even happy if holes are taken out of play, bunkers are flooded, placing is in play, mats are mandated and you have a couple of temporary greens. In short nothing like golf played during the season.

An argument is you should expect your handicap to be higher in winter due to tougher conditions and come down in summer. Very much a sine curve rather than a straight line. Thus my response to you is to keep playing and your HI will reflect the way you are playing in the prevailing conditions.

We still have a monthly competition thought the winter. Also still put social cards in...

 

[Patricia Mcgrath]

Usually when we get to this time of year, I stop entering comps or putting any cards in because it's winter golf and inevitably would just mean my handicap goes up, which I don't particularly want. I'm wondering now whether to do it differently this year though. This has been the first year where I've not been able to get my handicap down at all. So I'm asking myself, what would I rather? My handicap stays at 14.6 and then next Spring I resume trying to get it lower, possibly struggling again as I have this year. Or do I allow it to go up over winter and then get it back down in spring - same end result but a better feeling as at least I'll have had a cut then? And I suppose most of the spring comps are likely to be won by people who did go up over winter.

Which kind are you? No cards in winter so you don't go up, or just let it go up to get it back down again in spring?

Your hc is a refection of how you are currently playing, if you only put cards in though the summer then it's a refection of how you played in the summer not of your current game..
Our course is playable most of the winter. My hc actually goes down in the winter.
Why not give it a try and see what happens.

 

[KenL]

Ooh, deleted member posts

 

[KenL]

Your hc is a refection of how you are currently playing, if you only put cards in though the summer then it's a refection of how you played in the summer not of your current game..
Our course is playable most of the winter. My hc actually goes down in the winter.
Why not give it a try and see what happens.

That very much depends on how regularly people put cards in. Plenty people will take a year or longer to submit 20 cards.

 

[Patricia Mcgrath]

That very much depends on how regularly people put cards in. Plenty people will take a year or longer to submit 20 cards.

That's ture.. I'm among those who have embraced the WHS so it works for me. I get very frustrated at those who have a hc based of two years of golf, yet they play a lot. Some ARE bandits and some are doing themselves a dis favor and moan they never win anything..

 

[D-S]

“An argument is you should expect your handicap to be higher in winter due to tougher conditions and come down in summer. Very much a sine curve rather than a straight line. Thus my response to you is to keep playing and your HI will reflect the way you are playing in the prevailing conditions.”

What happens if you are a member of a club that can’t/doesn’t have qualifying competitions during the winter? (and there are a lot). By definition, according to this argument, their handicap will be uncompetitive at the start of the season.

 

[clubchamp98]

That very much depends on how regularly people put cards in. Plenty people will take a year or longer to submit 20 cards.

Depends if the course is up to being a qualifier.
Lots of courses change to much in winter that they don’t enable q cards.

Most of it the length.
But we have dug up the greens so no Q cards for some time I think.

 

[Patricia Mcgrath]

“An argument is you should expect your handicap to be higher in winter due to tougher conditions and come down in summer. Very much a sine curve rather than a straight line. Thus my response to you is to keep playing and your HI will reflect the way you are playing in the prevailing conditions.”

What happens if you are a member of a club that can’t/doesn’t have qualifying competitions during the winter? (and there are a lot). By definition, according to this argument, their handicap will be uncompetitive at the start of the season.

Under WHS we actually have acceptable and non acceptable cards. Aceptable being Medal, Stableford or 4BBB with a score of individual 36 + or combine 42+.
So although your club may not be running competitions, if you play a game that is qualifying and the course hasn't been altered for the winter in a way they prevents you from entering cards. Then they should be entered.

 

[rulefan]

Under WHS we actually have acceptable and non acceptable cards. Aceptable being Medal, Stableford or 4BBB with a score of individual 36 + or combine 42+.

If the course is suitable they should be qualifying and scores should not be a barrier.
Have I missed the clause that allows high scores to be barred?

 

[D-S]

If the course is suitable they should be qualifying and scores should not be a barrier.
Have I missed the clause that allows high scores to be barred?

If the course is suitable you are right however a lot of courses for a variety of reasons are unsuitable for acceptable scores in winter.