Wind Direction: Advice or Public Information

[Slab]

I've always considered asking about wind direction (not strength) as advice and breach of that rule

Well aware that 'distance to xyz' is public information and public information isn't advice etc

Am I wrong about wind direction being advice?

TIA

edit : and does it differ for a match or strokeplay comp

 

[Neilds]

Advice/3 says that wind direction is public knowledge so is not considered advice. It goes on to say that if you say “The wind is behind us on this hole, so be sure to land the ball short of the green." then that is considered to be advice

 

[Crow]

Might be public knowledge but people's interpretation of it will differ.

And if it is "public knowledge" then people will assume that they can ask about it's strength, a whole other can of worms!

(But maybe asking about wind strength has been legalised in recent rule changes to speed the game up or make it more friendly, so I might be talking nonsense as usual)

 

[Slab]

Advice/3 says that wind direction is public knowledge so is not considered advice. It goes on to say that if you say “The wind is behind us on this hole, so be sure to land the ball short of the green." then that is considered to be advice

thanks, the USGA webpage I first looked at doesn't have that info but I now see the R&A website has it covered and much more under clarifications ...


edit; this is all the usga had to say on it that I could easily find with no secondary link to clarifications. One up to the R&A

 

[Orikoru]

The wind direction is a statement of fact so it can't be advice can it? Same as a yardage.

 

[rulefan]

thanks, the USGA webpage I first looked at doesn't have that info but I now see the R&A website has it covered and much more under clarifications ...


edit; this is all the usga had to say on it that I could easily find with no secondary link to clarifications. One up to the R&A
View attachment 48897

Which R&A webpage did you use to find the information?

This by any chance? https://www.randa.org/rog/clarifications

 

[Slab]

The wind direction is a statement of fact so it can't be advice can it? Same as a yardage.

Unlike distance which is static I considered wind direction as variable and (in my head) it was therefore a matter of opinion and = advice

The link to R&A clears it up for me though

 

[Slab]

Which R&A webpage did you use to find the information?

This by any chance? https://www.randa.org/rog/clarifications

yeah that's the same one

 

[rulefan]

yeah that's the same one

It's exactly the same as the USGA

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=interp&section=definitions&subrulenum=1

 

[Slab]

It's exactly the same as the USGA

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=interp&section=definitions&subrulenum=1

thanks, unfortunately this is where I was looking on USGA which didn't help me : https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/players-edition/definitions.html

 

[Steven Rules]

I am puzzled as to why you haven't used the R&A Rules app. All the up-to-date information, including the above definitions and clarifications, are in there.

 

[Steven Rules]

Advice/3 says that wind direction is public knowledge so is not considered advice. It goes on to say that if you say “The wind is behind us on this hole, so be sure to land the ball short of the green." then that is considered to be advice

For completeness, Advice/3 also says "...it is advice when the statement also contains information intended to influence a player in choosing a club, making a stroke or deciding how to play during a hole or round".

So, while it is clearly stated that distance and wind direction (for example) are not advice, there can be an element of intent involved in determining some of the grey areas around advice.

 

[Slab]

I am puzzled as to why you haven't used the R&A Rules app. All the up-to-date information, including the above definitions and clarifications, are in there.

Because I was doing a rules quiz on a golf website (only six weeks old) and they linked directly to the USGA page, I posted earlier, as part of their answer
So when I got the Q wrong I naturally (I thought ) clicked on the link

 

[Steven Rules]

Hmmm. Yes. Obviously the quiz website needs some work. 2019 Rules....out of date. Players Edition....no longer exists and was never a good resource anyway.

 

[rulefan]

thanks, unfortunately this is where I was looking on USGA which didn't help me : https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/players-edition/definitions.html

Why did you not click on Full Rules?

 

[salfordlad]

This updated reference to wind direction is new for 2023. The specific important new references are the 6th bullet point under the definition of Advice and the second bullet point under clarification Advice/3. I've highlighted them in my book (that's one up for the book versus the App - they have different strengths).
Wind strength discussions, though, remain on the wrong side of the fence.

 

[salfordlad]

Hmmm. Yes. Obviously the quiz website needs some work. 2019 Rules....out of date. Players Edition....no longer exists and was never a good resource anyway.

There are no issues with the USGA quizzes, they have been comprehensively re-worked for 2023 (I found the odd glitch remaining and they responded quickly).

 

[Steven Rules]

I have a sense that Slab wasn't doing a USGA or R&A Rules quiz, but I could be mistaken.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

For completeness, Advice/3 also says "...it is advice when the statement also contains information intended to influence a player in choosing a club, making a stroke or deciding how to play during a hole or round".

So, while it is clearly stated that distance and wind direction (for example) are not advice, there can be an element of intent involved in determining some of the grey areas around advice.

…and so such as “it’s a two club wind against” is not allowed as it contains an element of advice in club selection.

 

[Slab]

I have a sense that Slab wasn't doing a USGA or R&A Rules quiz, but I could be mistaken.

Yup, it was on golf digest

And they gave links within each answer, so when they linked to the usga definition page for that Q I didn't know it was kind of an 'abridged' version
I mean I knew it looked basic as hell which is why I looked at the article date, then posted here