Why should amature winnings be limited?

[harpo_72]

After looking into the PGA requirements, I understand why lots of people don't bother. However I cannot see why people cannot compete for money or be sponsored etc without being a member of the PGA. I know the tour is owned and run by the PGA but that is just a brand. Why can't you have scratch competitions for non PGA members for big prizes as well, what is the r and a' s issue?

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Can you imagine the banditry that would go on?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

No idea an not that bothered as most of us are amateurs - we play for fun rather than financial gain. As soon as more significant financial gain comes into play it is no longer amateur. And even as a professional game you need to organise it or it becomes a mess and open to sharp practice and dodgy dealings - and someone has to protect the integrity of the game as a whole.

Why you bothered? I refuse to take part in 'high stakes' amateur stuff - as it the stuff of blaggards and show-offs with too much money - and contrary to the spirit and ethos of the amateur game.

 

[harpo_72]

Can you imagine the banditry that would go on?

Off scratch ... Who cares lowest score wins handicap is just a piece of paper or the club medal and not required.

 

[harpo_72]

No idea an not that bothered as most of us are amateurs - we play for fun rather than financial gain. As soon as more significant financial gain comes into play it is no longer amateur. And even as a professional game you need to organise it or it becomes a mess and open to sharp practice and dodgy dealings - and someone has to protect the integrity of the game as a whole.

Why you bothered? I refuse to take part in 'high stakes' amateur stuff - as it the stuff of blaggards and show-offs with too much money - and contrary to the spirit and ethos of the amateur game.

Your talking about gambling ... I agree I don't like gambling this is not this about having a tour where we can see good quality golf.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

Off scratch ... Who cares lowest score wins handicap is just a piece of paper or the club medal and not required.

Ah yes, somehow I missed that point in the OP.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Your talking about gambling ... I agree I don't like gambling this is not this about having a tour where we can see good quality golf.

An amateur scratch tour you mean? With significant prizes? Amateur tour I have no issue with in principle - significant prizes I'm less comfortable about as you have one set of rules for amateurs. Significant increase in prize money an amateur can win must apply across the board. And once again - anyone playing for a 'big' pot of money is not playing for the fun of it - but for the money. Sure have an amateur 'tour' but who is going to support the players trooping around the country to play if there are not significant winnings to be had. And as soon as you have sponsorship you are verging away from amateur game - and what players can afford a life of amateur golf on the road anyway. Just go watch the local pro tour.

 

[harpo_72]

An amateur scratch tour you mean? With significant prizes? Amateur tour I have no issue with in principle - significant prizes I'm less comfortable about as you have one set of rules for amateurs. Significant increase in prize money an amateur can win must apply across the board. And once again - anyone playing for a 'big' pot of money is not playing for the fun of it - but for the money. Sure have an amateur 'tour' but who is going to support the players trooping around the country to play if there are not significant winnings to be had. And as soon as you have sponsorship you are verging away from amateur game - and what players can afford a life of amateur golf on the road anyway. Just go watch the local pro tour.

That is what I am questioning why can't people just play for big prizes why is there a limitation ... My local pro tour won't let me play for their pot, I don't want to stand on the side lines I want to be involved. I am sure some of the low chaps on here would like to play for some proper money

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That is what I am questioning why can't people just play for big prizes why is there a limitation ... My local pro tour won't let me play for their pot, I don't want to stand on the side lines I want to be involved. I am sure some of the low chaps on here would like to play for some proper money

Because in amateur sport you don't play for the winnings - you play for the honour and satisfaction of winning - and IMO it should stay that way. If you want to compete for money then simple - turn professional.

As soon as 'big' money becomes involved in an amateur sport you sleep with the devil. And with golf where the honesty of the individual player and between FCs is absolutely essential - it is inevitable that the money on offer will be too tempting for some and honesty will disappear out of the window as connivance between players walks through the door.

 

[Stuey01]

Can't pretty much anyone "turn pro" pay a membership of the PGA and enter professional tournaments, paying the entry fee...?
A tournament Professional golfer is not necessarily the same thing as a PGA qualified PGA Pro I thought. You can be either or both.

Using Mark Crossfield and his mates as an example, he is a PGA qualified professional, he coaches but also talks of his former playing career where he was a tournament professional, so both. His mate Kevin Harper is a Pro, but a tournament pro, not a PGA qualified professional, so he plays as a pro but can't coach as a PGA pro. I think, from the vids anyway.

How is this relevant to the discussion? Dunno, suppose I'm making the point that if you want to play scratch events for money you don't have to spend 3 years selling mars bars and studying to do it.

 

[srixon 1]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if the handicap in your signature is correct then you are not going to win anything in scratch events. There is a massive gulf between your handicap and the "plus" golfers that would be coming out to take all the money.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Most of the top UK amateurs make more money from golf than many Pros.

There are also a few 'gambling' clubs where the club members play for sums that would frighten a pro off.
The difference being they are prepared to back themselves rather that hope for Sam Wanelse to put the money up.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if the handicap in your signature is correct then you are not going to win anything in scratch events. There is a massive gulf between your handicap and the "plus" golfers that would be coming out to take all the money.

Indeed - why I was asking why OP he is bothered. Bloke at my club turned pro off 5 h/cap - really fancied himself - guess what...nowt.

 

[harpo_72]

Indeed - why I was asking why OP he is bothered. Bloke at my club turned pro off 5 h/cap - really fancied himself - guess what...nowt.

That's a fair point, but as stated why waste 3 years, why not go off and do it. I know my handicap is high but if there was the opportunity to play for money in proper events would that not motivate others to play? The handicap is just for clubs and bragging rights etc, I don't see the point of being amature and holding a plus handicap in fact from 4 downwards you should expect to be shooting level par or better. So why not play proper competitions for money ? Also you must remember some clubs protect handicaps so your version of x handicap might only be y etc.....

 

[Stuey01]

That's a fair point, but as stated why waste 3 years, why not go off and do it. I know my handicap is high but if there was the opportunity to play for money in proper events would that not motivate others to play? The handicap is just for clubs and bragging rights etc, I don't see the point of being amature and holding a plus handicap in fact from 4 downwards you should expect to be shooting level par or better. So why not play proper competitions for money ? Also you must remember some clubs protect handicaps so your version of x handicap might only be y etc.....

You don't have to waste 3 years. Qualified PGA professional and professional player are not the same thing.

A quick google suggests that if you qualify for and play in a pro tournament you lose your am status and are a Professional Golfer (not to be confused with a PGA Pro)

 

[patricks148]

The main thing i should think is where would the money come from? who's going to put big cash into comps like this with little return. Even a lot of the Pro events are struggling for cash, hence you only have one other event on the European tour in England other than the open when it's not in Scotland.

I imag you would have to charge a fair whack as entry fee... our you could pay a fair whack and play on the Trilby Tour:rofl:

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

That's a fair point, but as stated why waste 3 years, why not go off and do it. I know my handicap is high but if there was the opportunity to play for money in proper events would that not motivate others to play? The handicap is just for clubs and bragging rights etc, I don't see the point of being amature and holding a plus handicap in fact from 4 downwards you should expect to be shooting level par or better. So why not play proper competitions for money ? Also you must remember some clubs protect handicaps so your version of x handicap might only be y etc.....

Sorry buddy - I'm either very dim or completely missing what you are getting at. If you want to play proper competitions for money then turn pro and go for it - good luck. That's what the pro game is there for. Otherwise stay amateur. Our game is not for the winning of pots of money it's for the fun of it. And success brings satisfaction and pride - but not money.

Have you read much about Gary Wolsteneholme? He could have been a very successful pro golfer but stayed amateur - for the love of the game and less stress - and he had a decent job. He was well +++ handicap and had a fantastic and i am sure vey fulfilling amateur career. Not sure why you think having a plus handicap makes amateur golf less fulfilling or enjoyable.

I think he tried his hand at the senior pro tour but not sure what success he is having or whether indeed he is still giving it a serious go.

[Note from GW website - 2013 European Senior Tour OoM - currently 13th with earnings of €72,929]

 

[harpo_72]

The main thing i should think is where would the money come from? who's going to put big cash into comps like this with little return. Even a lot of the Pro events are struggling for cash, hence you only have one other event on the European tour in England other than the open when it's not in Scotland.

I imag you would have to charge a fair whack as entry fee... our you could pay a fair whack and play on the Trilby Tour:rofl:

Who knows it was just a question of why the amature purse should be limited. The Trilby tour is a taboo subject and would never just be a scratch competition

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Who knows it was just a question of why the amature purse should be limited. The Trilby tour is a taboo subject and would never just be a scratch competition

It's limited because it's an amateur (sp?) game played for fun and not for money - that's why - pretty simple really. And to repeat myself - increasing the limit on prize money would unfortunately encourage cheating. And amateur golf would really struggle in an atmosphere where cheating was more 'commonplace'

 

[patricks148]

Sorry buddy - I'm either very dim or completely missing what you are getting at. If you want to play proper competitions for money then turn pro and go for it - good luck. That's what the pro game is there for. Otherwise stay amateur. Our game is not for the winning of pots of money it's for the fun of it. And success brings satisfaction and pride - but not money.

Have you read much about Gary Wolsteneholme? He could have been a very successful pro golfer but stayed amateur - for the love of the game and less stress - and he had a decent job. He was well +++ handicap and had a fantastic and i am sure vey fulfilling amateur career. Not sure why you think having a plus handicap makes amateur golf less fulfilling or enjoyable.

I think he tried his hand at the senior pro tour but not sure what success he is having or whether indeed he is still giving it a serious go.

Didn't he win on the seniors tour last year or maybe the year before? I do remember there being a bit of an interview with hi in the mag when he tuned pro. and as i remeber he didn't turn pro because he was not long enough for the European tour??

We have two guys at my club who have both tried there hands as Tour pro's both of them were +3 or 4 and niether made it and turned Am again