Will this affect the pot hunters?

3offTheTee

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Quote ….Plans proposed to offer money in handicap events have been shelved in favour of scratch competitions. Steve Carroll sat down with the R&A's Grant Moir to find out more
by Steve Carroll | October 26, 2021 | Club and Amateur
Golfers playing in scratch competitions will soon be able to win up to £700 in cash following changes to the Rules of Amateur Status.
But while players in handicap events can also compete for prizes up to the same value, they’ll not be able to accept money under the new regulations, which come into force from January 1, 2022.

There is a full article but changes ahead by The R and A. This is from National Club Golfer
 

Lord Tyrion

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Ian Carter has done a piece on the BBC website about it as well but I wasn't that clear after I had read it.

In simple terms does it mean that a regular club Open 4BBB will no longer offer a cash prize? It may be vouchers for the pro shop or a physical item, eg 4 ball voucher, 12 golf balls etc but that's it?

Personally, very happy with that if I have understood correctly. The bigger the prize, the bigger the bandit that is attracted, the worse the taste left in the mouth. They wont disappear but hopefully it will make the circuit less attractive to these people.
 

harpo_72

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How does the prize manifest itself? Is it or could it be a transfer to you club account or will it be whatever the pro of that club cannot sell coz it’s tat?
Asking for a friend
 

sweaty sock

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Hope from now going forward its 100% tat.

I would write the rules to specifically state that winnings can only be garish colour, extreme sizes (xs or xxxxl), literally decades old golf equipment, or spurious stuff that has no relation to golf (carriage clock, office chair, piano lessons).

Extra points awarded for items that cant be easily cashed in on ebay (like a fourball with the captain, or a free meal on finals day)
 
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GB72

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Not sure it will make a massive difference if the comp was offering a signicant amount of prize money and now offered equivalent in goods. For example, win a driver, flog it on ebay, still make a fair chunk of change.

Personall think they should have simpy capped the prize value for handicap comps to £25.00 and an invite back to defend the title next year. Few would cheat for that.
 

SammmeBee

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Ian Carter has done a piece on the BBC website about it as well but I wasn't that clear after I had read it.

In simple terms does it mean that a regular club Open 4BBB will no longer offer a cash prize? It may be vouchers for the pro shop or a physical item, eg 4 ball voucher, 12 golf balls etc but that's it?

Personally, very happy with that if I have understood correctly. The bigger the prize, the bigger the bandit that is attracted, the worse the taste left in the mouth. They wont disappear but hopefully it will make the circuit less attractive to these people.

They’ve never been allowed to offer cash as a prize so no change…….
 

williamalex1

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Prize vouchers can be used to pay your fees, bar bill, buy from the pro shop, the odd high street stores use to accept them too.
Some pros use to give you cash less a percentage.
 

backwoodsman

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As per Sammmebee - us handicappers were never allowed to accept cash prizes - and still wont be able to. Only change is that scratch comps will be able to offer cash.

So the bandits will still be able to snaffle the expensive goodies (up to £700) which may be on offer in handicap events
 

Crazyface

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As usual it's a fudge. Why can't they have a national database that all scores in all competitions are logged, including ALL PAIRS !!!!. How can this be done? Well a simple or complicated, who cares, algorithm that can see when certain people when paired to together and keep winning, their handicaps are reduced the next time they play together. Link this all with BRS booking. Job done.
 

Crazyface

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As per Sammmebee - us handicappers were never allowed to accept cash prizes - and still wont be able to. Only change is that scratch comps will be able to offer cash.

So the bandits will still be able to snaffle the expensive goodies (up to £700) which may be on offer in handicap events

And stop those who roam the country's in the UK doing this. Yes YOU KNOW WHO I MEAN. Are they reading this???? :devilish:
 

HeftyHacker

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As usual it's a fudge. Why can't they have a national database that all scores in all competitions are logged, including ALL PAIRS !!!!. How can this be done? Well a simple or complicated, who cares, algorithm that can see when certain people when paired to together and keep winning, their handicaps are reduced the next time they play together. Link this all with BRS booking. Job done.

By what metrics would you reduce their handicaps though? The tournaments aren't played to the rules of golf hence not being qualifying. Short of making every player putt out each hole or NR i don't see how it could?

I won a 4bbb at the weekend with a 47 points, the lad I played with had won the previous week as well with 49 points.

Both times he shot a 2 over gross playing off a HI of 11.

I play with him quite regularly and he enters the comp at our club most weekends so its not as though he has an intentionally high handicap.

He is a) in a ridiculous run of form and b) mentally a bit rubbish at individual comps, once he has a bad hole he seems unable to recover, even in stableford.

Now I've no doubt that there will be all sorts being said about him in the club but what can be done? He's genuinely posted those scores and, according to the current system, a genuine handicap.
 
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As usual it's a fudge. Why can't they have a national database that all scores in all competitions are logged, including ALL PAIRS !!!!. How can this be done? Well a simple or complicated, who cares, algorithm that can see when certain people when paired to together and keep winning, their handicaps are reduced the next time they play together. Link this all with BRS booking. Job done.
How on Earth can you reduce someone’s handicap based on their pairs score
 

doublebogey7

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As usual it's a fudge. Why can't they have a national database that all scores in all competitions are logged, including ALL PAIRS !!!!. How can this be done? Well a simple or complicated, who cares, algorithm that can see when certain people when paired to together and keep winning, their handicaps are reduced the next time they play together. Link this all with BRS booking. Job done.

What has the status of Better Ball scores got to do with the change in the Amateur Status Rules.
 
D

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They manage it in other parts of rhe world and Ireland are currently holding a trial, so not sure why it can't be done here. Wh

And the same question is - how can someones handicap be affected by someone in a pairs events

There could be an event where my PP holes out before me and there is no need for me to putt out - so how do they know what score to assign me ?
 

doublebogey7

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And the same question is - how can someones handicap be affected by someone in a pairs events

There could be an event where my PP holes out before me and there is no need for me to putt out - so how do they know what score to assign me ?
The WHS mandates that the most likely score for the hole is recorded. There is advice to go with that.
 
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The WHS mandates that the most likely score for the hole is recorded. There is advice to go with that.

So someone can get a handicap cut without putting the ball in the hole based on some “likely score” - so say I pick up after 8 shots in a hole will it then give me a par as that’s the “likely score” on that hole
 

doublebogey7

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So someone can get a handicap cut without putting the ball in the hole based on some “likely score” - so say I pick up after 8 shots in a hole will it then give me a par as that’s the “likely score” on that hole
No, you would be required to record the score you would most likely have scored had you continued to play the hole. Remember though that scores for handicap are restricted to.the net double bogey rule. Please don't get hung up.of the inaccuracy inherent in this approach. The current system has built in inaccuracies by not counting 4B and MP scores at all.. For many golfers thoose formats make up the majority of competitive scores.
 
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