Will this affect the pot hunters?

[Crazyface]

The Golf Australia WHS guide has the procedure below. I don't know if this is being used in the trial in Ireland.

(E) FOUR-BALL SCORES

(i) WHEN TO USE SCORE OBTAINED IN FOUR-BALL COMPETITION FOR HANDICAPPING PURPOSES
Four-ball scores (including from mixed events) SHOULD be used for handicapping an individual player but only if the following requirements are met:
▪ The pair that the relevant player played in has a net score of at least 6 better than par (ie 42 points or better in Stableford, +6 or better in Par, etc).
▪ The individual player's score appears at least 9 times on the four-ball scorecard.
▪ The adjusted score (after the method described in (ii) below has been followed to create an individual scorecard) is equal to or better than 36 points.

(ii) PROCEDURE FOR CREATING INDIVIDUAL SCORECARD FROM FOUR-BALL SCORECARD FOR HANDICAPPING PURPOSES:
▪ Where an individual player’s score is to be handicapped (irrespective of whether the competition is played as Par, Stroke, Maximum Score, or Stableford), it must be processed as a Stableford score in accordance with the procedures contained within this regulation.
▪ When a player’s score is not recorded on the four-ball card, they are given 1½ Stableford points. (Exception: When a player’s score is not recorded on the four-ball card, and their partner’s score is 1 Stableford point, the player is given 1 Stableford point.)
▪ When a player’s score counts on the four-ball card for a hole, they are given the appropriate number of Stableford points for that hole. (When both players have 0 Stableford points on a hole, they are both considered to have their score listed on the scorecard, including for the purposes of ‘being on the card 9 times or more’. For the purposes of creating an adjusted individual scorecard, each player will have 0 points listed on the individual card for this hole.)
▪ If two identical net scores are recorded by partners on a hole, both scores are eligible to be used on an adjusted individual scorecard. However, if the first player to hole out can be readily identified, the second player is deemed to have not recorded a score for that hole.
▪ Clubs are to strongly discourage players from recording the scores of both partners on a hole or holes unless a concurrent singles event is being played. (If a concurrent singles event is being played, all scores must be handicapped as singles scores and the ‘Four-ball Scores’ handicapping regulation must not be used.) Players who regularly return four-ball scorecards featuring identical net scores for both players on the same hole will not be eligible to have these rounds handicapped – clubs should consider suspending the GA Handicaps of such players.
▪ When all the gaps in the card have been filled in, the points are totalled, and where a half appears in the total, the points total is rounded to the next lower whole number.

(iii) If an extended 18-hole individual score obtained via this method is processed through GOLF Link, the score type option to be chosen in GOLF Link by the administrator MUST be ‘Four-ball’ OR the score MUST be processed as an Ad Hoc score.

(iv) The course rating value that GOLF Link will use for this purpose is the Scratch Rating (unadjusted by any PCC). These scores must not be used in any PCC calculation. In all other respects regarding the inclusion of the score in the player’s handicap record, the score will be treated as a regular 18-hole singles competition score.

(v) The club’s Handicapping Authority should have in place a policy stipulating whether or not such scores will be processed for handicapping (see Sub-Section T below). Exceptions to the policy may be made to cater for events that have a character which is not typical to the club (such exceptions should be announced prior to the relevant day’s play).

Seems a tad complex, but something is better than nothing. Why is EG seemingly doing nothing? This is what really annoys me with governing bodies. They talk a lot about how things should change but do nothing.

 

[HeftyHacker]

Players entering as four people could be split up. Easy enough. Or even get the booking software to not allow them to book the same tee time . Again, simple.

But then they'd just book as two pairs? Unless you split clubs up i guess.

 

[harpo_72]

But then they'd just book as two pairs? Unless you split clubs up i guess.

We joined a corporate competition as a pair, it was my neighbour and I and we went along to enjoy the course. But it was a best ball competition and we were paired with a couple of bandits… the irony is we won loads of stuff because these 2 were just taking the mick.
So you can get innocently dragged into stuff .. but it was embarrassing and we haven’t played since , also one of the blokes was called out a little later

 

[HeftyHacker]

Agreed, but you could accept a score of one over what you would need to score a stableford point. We use this at my place in some qualifying comps to speed up play. Also the systems used only recognise this as a score for you anyway.

It still does in individual play.

If we were to use this applied to a 20 handicapper for example:

On 9 holes they score a gross par (for at least 3 points a time).

If they NR the remaining 9 holes and were awarded a net double bogey, they would end up shooting at least 36 over gross par anyway and therefore unlikely to reduce their handicap.

Obviously the above is an extreme example but it does highlight the flaws in that approach.

 

[rulefan]

Seems a tad complex, but something is better than nothing. Why is EG seemingly doing nothing? This is what really annoys me with governing bodies. They talk a lot about how things should change but do nothing.

CONGU in general and EG in particular are waiting on the trial taking place in Ireland.

 

[KenL]

If they have picked up on the way down the fairway their score can be attested at one over the score they would need to gain one stableford point.

All handicap calculations are based on stableford so a 10 on a par 4 counts as a 6 or a 7 where you get a stroke.

 

[KenL]

We joined a corporate competition as a pair, it was my neighbour and I and we went along to enjoy the course. But it was a best ball competition and we were paired with a couple of bandits… the irony is we won loads of stuff because these 2 were just taking the mick.
So you can get innocently dragged into stuff .. but it was embarrassing and we haven’t played since , also one of the blokes was called out a little later

Imagine admitting that on here.

Should have reported their cheating no?

 

[Banchory Buddha]

And stop those who roam the country's in the UK doing this. Yes YOU KNOW WHO I MEAN. Are they reading this????

Simple solution, don't run your opens as 4BBB.

It was a culture shock when moving to England to find that genuine opens were few and far between, If you provide a format where handicaps aren't reportable, guess what happens?

 

[doublebogey7]

I understand agree with the idea in principal but that is far too subjective to ever truly implement. If I'm in a greenside bunker or long rough for 2 or 3. It could take anything between 2 and 4 shots to get up and down. So I wouldn't be happy with someone making an assumption on my behalf, particularly if it impacted my handicap. I'd rather just insist on holing out, but mentally I'd know it didn't really matter so I doubt I'd be spending as much time over each shot.

I agree that scores over 50 are pretty ridiculous. But I've always been of the opinion that if you're in a betterball comp with all handicaps, you need to be shooting in the high 40s to have a chance at the prizes, if that's what you're playing for.

We have to remembervthat handicaps are only ever an estimate of a players ability on any given day. Any round played that does not count for handicap just adds to the inability to get handicaps as accurate as possible. I play as much competetive and handicapping counting comps as I can, but still only manage 10-15 scoes on my record. But play at least 3 times that in 4B and MP comps.

 

[doublebogey7]

Seems a tad complex, but something is better than nothing. Why is EG seemingly doing nothing? This is what really annoys me with governing bodies. They talk a lot about how things should change but do nothing.

They are doing something, they are part of CONGU, who are running the trial in Ireland

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Players entering as four people could be split up. Easy enough. Or even get the booking software to not allow them to book the same tee time . Again, simple.

The balance there is that for the vast majority the 4 are a social group that want to play together in all innocence. All but 1 Open I've played in this year has been as part of a 4, sometimes from the same club, sometimes people from separate clubs but we all know each other. We play together for fun. I think many would be less inclined if they were going to be split up and mixed.

The question becomes, do you mix up the comp to the detriment of 98% of the players just to block the 2% who want to manipulate the system for their own benefit? That seems a little too drastic for me but that doesn't mean I'm right. I'd rather keep the entry method the same, play in your groups and have a really low prize eg £20pp. Someone mentioned this, or similar, in an earlier post, @GB72 , post #5, and I think that keeps the friendly ethos of the open in place but reduces the temptation to cheat.

 

[rulefan]

After a rash of bandits a few years ago, most clubs round here do not allow pairs from the same club to play in the same 4 in their Opens.

 

[harpo_72]

Imagine admitting that on here.

Should have reported their cheating no?

Wasn’t that obvious and we didn’t know the handicaps they were parading off. As one of them scored the card.
Like I said I went to play golf and have fun, and I wouldn’t have bothered with a card anyway.

 

[Crazyface]

But then they'd just book as two pairs? Unless you split clubs up i guess.

Damn

 

[Crazyface]

It still does in individual play.

If we were to use this applied to a 20 handicapper for example:

On 9 holes they score a gross par (for at least 3 points a time).

If they NR the remaining 9 holes and were awarded a net double bogey, they would end up shooting at least 36 over gross par anyway and therefore unlikely to reduce their handicap.

Obviously the above is an extreme example but it does highlight the flaws in that approach.

Ahhh, but in a pairs competition if the pair were in with a shout after nine, they'd both be trying their very best so wouldn't put in nine blobs otherwise, I'm sure , they'd get a very hard Paddington Stare from their partner.

 

[Crazyface]

Simple solution, don't run your opens as 4BBB.

It was a culture shock when moving to England to find that genuine opens were few and far between, If you provide a format where handicaps aren't reportable, guess what happens?

Agreed, but pairs comps are fun to play in. It's just the aftermath that causes concern.

 

[Crazyface]

All handicap calculations are based on stableford so a 10 on a par 4 counts as a 6 or a 7 where you get a stroke.

Thought so, just had to post to clarify.

 

[Crazyface]

CONGU in general and EG in particular are waiting on the trial taking place in Ireland.

I'll bet they come back with something like:- The results were inconclusive, so we haven't got a clue what to do....to BLOCKBUSTER !!!!!! Sorry couldn't resisit once I'd typed it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Maybe it’s me but I not that bothered who wins opens - I’m there to enjoy the course and club first and foremost

 

[HeftyHacker]

Maybe it’s me but I not that bothered who wins opens - I’m there to enjoy the course and club first and foremost

Agreed to be honest. There have been a couple of times where me and a mate have thought we might be in with a chance but you usually know in the first few holes whether that's the case. Then its just a case of enjoying somewhere new and different with a few pals and enjoying a pint afterwards.