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Why is hitting a draw good?

Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

MadAdey said:
I know what you are going to say Bob and I agree with you. But I want one of the people that are going on about this new theory to please tell me how to do this. I have an object that I wish to fade the ball around. Can you tell how to do this please using your new theory. Go as in depth and technical as you want.
Click to expand...

Read the link I posted above. There's a specific example of how to fade a ball around a tree....
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Sorry but a lot still does not make sence. If your swingpath is in to out at impact and your club head is square to your swingpath. You will push the ball, straight right. And vis-visa. A normal swing path should be. In to square back to in. Hitting the ball in the square bit of the swing. Its all to do with the ball position. Get that wrong and it will make no differance how good your swing is. The ball will go anywhere, depending if its to far forward or to far back in your stance.
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

DaveM said:
Good tread this by the way.
Click to expand...

This is what is confusing me a bit. The ball will start its flight in relation to the angle that the club was swung with. That is Newton's 3rd law I think. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" So if I am aiming right and swing the club parallel to my body then the initial flight of the ball will be on that path. then if I have the club face closed the spin imparted on the ball will then take effect and make the ball move from right to left. If I hit it with an open face I will then have a push slice? Am I correct or not?
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

A number of posts back I posted a link to a video that explains the 'D Plane' and how it affects the flight of the golf ball. If people actually watch it and take in the explanation then they may start to understand the reality of the way a ball is shaped.

If anyone here still does not understand the way it works then look at the video before asking questions or suggesting that if people like Leadbetter say something then it must be correct.

here is the link again. Please follow it. I will be quite happy to discuss its content:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUZ3V...eature=related

Here is another good video that was posted that proves without doubt how the ball takes off in the direction of the clubface irrespective of swingpath. How can anyone suggest it's wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEHiY5iv5u4

Heres another easy to understand example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahmKhrK8xHE&feature=related

Look at them. Think about it. Try it out on the range. Become a good shaper of the ball.
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

MadAdey said:
This is what is confusing me a bit. The ball will start its flight in relation to the angle that the club was swung with. That is Newton's 3rd law I think. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" So if I am aiming right and swing the club parallel to my body then the initial flight of the ball will be on that path. then if I have the club face closed the spin imparted on the ball will then take effect and make the ball move from right to left. If I hit it with an open face I will then have a push slice? Am I correct or not?
Click to expand...

please watch this video , it should help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEHiY5iv5u4
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

MadAdey said:
This is what is confusing me a bit. The ball will start its flight in relation to the angle that the club was swung with. That is Newton's 3rd law I think. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" So if I am aiming right and swing the club parallel to my body then the initial flight of the ball will be on that path. then if I have the club face closed the spin imparted on the ball will then take effect and make the ball move from right to left. If I hit it with an open face I will then have a push slice? Am I correct or not?
Click to expand...

If I'm honest this makes more sense. I know it may be the old way and be wrong now but this is easier to understand.
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Right another simple question for this thread....old ball flight law wrong ....new one right.........

question is why did every pro NOT hit "THAT" tree??
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Fascinating if complicated thread that made my brain hurt.

One thing puzzles me. If the "old" method was wrong how come the pros who used it were able to actually bend the ball round trees. Was it that they weren't doing what they thought they were doing?

Just looked at the lesson on the hook in Tom Watsons "Lessons of a Lifetime" DVD. He says to hit a hook there are 3 methods:

1. Aim right, pull your right foot back and rotate the hands faster through impact.
2. Hood (close) the club face (re-grip not just turn the hands) and aim right (Nicklaus's method)
3. Aim right and strengthen your grip (i.e turn the left hand over so it is more on top of the club and the right hand under).

He demontstrates all 3 and of course draws/hooks the ball perfectly each time.

To hit an extreme hook (i.e. to get round a tree) he says to use a comnibation of all 3.

1. Hood the club face;
2. Strengthen the grip;
3. Aim right of the target;
4. Rotate the hands faster through impact.

Then he does it and gets a really nice curving draw/hook that starts a long way right and moves back to the left.

He does each one totally naturally and makes it look absurdly easy.

Well he is a legend so he should, shouldn't he.:smirk:
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

MashieNiblick said:
One thing puzzles me. If the "old" method was wrong how come the pros who used it were able to actually bend the ball round trees. Was it that they weren't doing what they thought they were doing?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The clubface never got to where they were pointing it when they made the actual swing, it was more open (not square or closed) than they thought thereby missing the tree. It comes with practicing the move and then it becomes so ingrained you actually believe that you are doing it right... rather like telling someone they are standing closed, even though you can see it a mile off they won't believe you...so you put tour stix down on their foot line and they STILL try to tell you otherwise or remark how they're "playing for a big draw this time" :D



This is a good video.... particularly important if you're about to part with your cash for a lesson..
not because it's about stack and tilt but because it pertains to the way we've all been taught wrong by PGA club pros for DECADES http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/10775

There ARE ways to check if you're about to get a 'proper lesson'.
 
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Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

MadAdey said:
Then please tell me in simple terms if I want to go around an object with a draw then how do I do it?
Click to expand...

Set up square to your target with the ball a fraction back in your stance, open the clubface so it's aiming right of the tree, lean the club forward towards the target a few inches... and swing.



The ball will start to the right of the tree (where you aimed the clubface), because it is back in your stance and the club is tilted forward you will hit it with an in-to-out path and it will curve round the tree and land on the target.

The more you want to draw or even hook it the more back in your stance and more tilted the club needs to be. The shot will always be the same you simply adjust the curvature, with practice it's pretty easy.

Just to clarify... you are hooking it with an open clubface relative to the target... looks like you're going to carve it waaaay right but physics stops that from happening because you are controlling the swingpath and forcing it to be in-to-out (drawspin).
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Not that I want to answer the question twice....but here goes....

MashieNiblick said:
One thing puzzles me. If the "old" method was wrong how come the pros who used it were able to actually bend the ball round trees. Was it that they weren't doing what they thought they were doing?
Click to expand...



Absolutely. The clubface never got to where they were pointing it when they made the actual swing, it was more open (not square or closed) than they thought thereby missing the tree.
Click to expand...


AND HERE'S THE PROOF... this is Michael Breed, world famous PGA instructor, probably as good as you're going to get on TV...you probably couldn't afford a lesson with him...getting it wrong :)

He's using the Bobmac technique, oops! I mean the old technique that is wrong, ..however his clubface never gets to where he thinks it will (he opens it unwittingly by HABIT) and blocks it right!!!....


[video=youtube;obgy1KrP6yk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obgy1KrP6yk[/video]

So even though he's practically set up to hit a 'snap hook' he actually barely gets any hook on the ball...(LOL)

Millions of viewers are now being taught the wrong way, pretty cool huh?




"It started a little bit to the right of where I wanted it to start" LOLOLOLOL
 
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Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

Scouser said:
Right another simple question for this thread....old ball flight law wrong ....new one right.........

question is why did every pro NOT hit "THAT" tree??
Click to expand...

All pros dont do it that way.

Many Pros may be great strikers of the ball and have great feel on how to hit shots but they dont always do what they think they are doing. High speed cameras and Trackman have shown this to be the case.

Here is a simple test you can make. Take a putter and a ball. Line up the ball to a target. keeping the putter face pointing to the target hit the ball by cutting across it from out to in then from in to out. You will see that the ball will travel straight towards the target.

Here is yet another video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKG_RgmLfiQ
 
Re: Why is hotting a draw good?

SocketRocket said:
Typo there sorry.

The ball would take off to the right and fade right.
Click to expand...

James, believe it or not, I'm agreeing with you.
I was taught the new rules by the PGA so I would imagine all pros who qualified since 2004 and I'm sure many years before that do as well. I too am surprised at the guys still using the old laws.
 
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