wjemather
Well-known member
As long as you realise what that means; i.e. that the handicap system was conceived solely for the benefit of <<1% of amateur golfers competing in non-handicap events.
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WHS working well for me
- Thread starter jim8flog
- Start date
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
Correct, that's basically what the governing bodies admitted to.As long as you realise what that means; i.e. that the handicap system was conceived solely for the benefit of <<1% of amateur golfers competing in non-handicap events.
wjemather
Well-known member
Provide evidence.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
They stated so at the time. And as said above an R&A official has confirmed the same.
And of course, who were all these people who needed portable handicap indexes? Not joe bloggs who 99.99% of the time would never play with card in hand abroad, it was for the elite, it's clearly for the elite, and it was stated it was for the elite. I'm sorry you missed that being said at the time, but I'm really not going hunting for some obscure quote on google to satisfy your pig-headedness.
wjemather
Well-known member
I do not recall, and can't find evidence of, any such statements; but if they did, I'm sure you won't have any problem providing links. I'm afraid second-hand hearsay attributed to someone not directly involved in the WHS project doesn't cut it.
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I think common sense tells us all that the WHS project was not done for the purpose of a bunch of British golfers being able to play in elite amateur events in the states. Thats preposterous. All that would have needed was the USGA to agree to specifying a Congu handicap requirement for for events over there. Rather than the long a complicated process and change required for so much of the rest of the worlds golfers and associations, officials, volunteers, club members etc. Really, is this idea that it was for the benefit of elite British golfers just misplaced British exceptionalism gone utterly crazy ?
sweaty sock
Hacker
Ok, but if not elite amatuers, who else competes across the world against golfers of different nationalities? Definitely lesss than 1% of golfers.... and I distinctly remember that portable world wide handicap being the reason for the change...
There would be far more expat/retired people from the UK playing golf in Portugal and Spain while also playing at home than elite golfers playing tournaments in the US. I have no numbers, but would guess orders of magnitude greater.
The R&A :
Why a World Handicap System?
Golf is a global sport, with a single set of playing Rules, a single set of equipment Rules and a single set of Rules of Amateur Status. The missing link is handicapping, and after significant engagement and collaboration with the existing handicapping authorities and National Associations, it has been agreed that the time is right to bring the different handicap systems together.
That seems sensible.
Why a World Handicap System?
Golf is a global sport, with a single set of playing Rules, a single set of equipment Rules and a single set of Rules of Amateur Status. The missing link is handicapping, and after significant engagement and collaboration with the existing handicapping authorities and National Associations, it has been agreed that the time is right to bring the different handicap systems together.
That seems sensible.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
You know when club officials were being invited to zoom meetings to discuss the changes? Well, then.
Now unfortunately I didn't make any recordings, so you'll just have to take it from me, others who have said it, and public utterances elsewhere, along with the clear point that this was a solution to a problem that didn't exist for 99.99% of the active golfing population, so why do you think there was a change?
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
You're correct, it was definitely put across as the main driver for the change
And, tbf, the idea of one handicap system is perfectly fine, should have been long ago, but of course the USGA want things done their way, so we've largely got the American system, we've kept none of the superior UK system, and have just created an absolute mess
wjemather
Well-known member
So you have no evidence then. Thanks for confirming.
You mean simpler. In no way was it superior in providing equity (which is the most important thing for a handicap system) for golfers of widely varying abilities, especially those from different courses - only a system that incorporates Slope (or similar mechanism) can do that.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I had a thought about that and it does make me smile
From memory (I did not have a handicap then). The switch to the UHS system used for last few decades was originally bought in because UK handicaps were considered to be too low compared to Americans.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
No there was evidence, your inability to pay attention is not my problem.
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I think I attended three different seminars in England during the period Feb 2018 until Feb/March 2020. The key summary slide as to the aims and objectives of the WHS was...
Its purpose is to enable as many golfers as possible the opportunity to:
• Obtain and maintain a Handicap Index.
• Use their Handicap Index on any golf course around the world.
• Compete, or play recreationally, with anyone else on a fair and equal basis.
These points cover a multitude of scenarios....from folks with holiday homes abroad who can now have a handicap that follows them wherever they play, to folks wanting to compete against foreign golfers on an equitable basis, it also covers a group of blokes, either from the same club or different clubs in the UK, when they are on their jollies in Turkey/Portugal in allowing them to play off a handicap that is representative of what they need for the course/tees they are about to play off.
At no time was anything about providing equity for Elite level golfers, mentioned in ANY meeting I attended in England. Maybe the Scottish Union put forward a different agenda.
Its purpose is to enable as many golfers as possible the opportunity to:
• Obtain and maintain a Handicap Index.
• Use their Handicap Index on any golf course around the world.
• Compete, or play recreationally, with anyone else on a fair and equal basis.
These points cover a multitude of scenarios....from folks with holiday homes abroad who can now have a handicap that follows them wherever they play, to folks wanting to compete against foreign golfers on an equitable basis, it also covers a group of blokes, either from the same club or different clubs in the UK, when they are on their jollies in Turkey/Portugal in allowing them to play off a handicap that is representative of what they need for the course/tees they are about to play off.
At no time was anything about providing equity for Elite level golfers, mentioned in ANY meeting I attended in England. Maybe the Scottish Union put forward a different agenda.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news-and-events/general-news/2020/april/new-golf-handicap-system/
"This will level the playing field and make it fair, not just for the elite player but for everybody who wants to play golf abroad and against other people"
Literally at the head of the agenda right there, the implication being designed for the "elite", but yeah it'll kinda work for you plebs as well. They just can't help themselves.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
http://www.golfsouth.co.uk/world-handicap-set-for-roll-out-across-globe-in-2020-says-ra-and-usga/
"One of the biggest anamolies in the UK comes when elite amateurs head to the USA on golf scholarships.
Their handicaps are effectively frozen while they are in the States because their scores do not count back home.
And with the number of home-based players with plus-handicaps growing each year, some find entering some of the UK’s leading amateur events – which are based on handicap rather than world rankings – more and more difficult.
And another consequence of that is some players will pick which events – or courses – they play to protect either their World Amateur Golf Ranking, or their handicap."
Yup, nothing to do with looking after the elite
The governing bodies in the UK are ALL about the elite, blazers, and that's it.
"One of the biggest anamolies in the UK comes when elite amateurs head to the USA on golf scholarships.
Their handicaps are effectively frozen while they are in the States because their scores do not count back home.
And with the number of home-based players with plus-handicaps growing each year, some find entering some of the UK’s leading amateur events – which are based on handicap rather than world rankings – more and more difficult.
And another consequence of that is some players will pick which events – or courses – they play to protect either their World Amateur Golf Ranking, or their handicap."
Yup, nothing to do with looking after the elite
The governing bodies in the UK are ALL about the elite, blazers, and that's it.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
Good piece here as well http://thethinendofthewedge.com/2018/05/whs-wtf/
And a good summation...
"There is little doubt in my mind that the introduction of a WHS is entirely concerned with the top end of the playing of the game, and more particularly the standing of some of its administrators – “look what I’VE done” – than the genuine needs of our game worldwide."
And a good summation...
"There is little doubt in my mind that the introduction of a WHS is entirely concerned with the top end of the playing of the game, and more particularly the standing of some of its administrators – “look what I’VE done” – than the genuine needs of our game worldwide."
Beezerk
Money List Winner
Quick one, I've read you can play 10 holes and it counts towards your handicap, is that correct and do you just put no score in the computer afterwards? About to head out and we are going to put a score in but we won't get 18 finished I imagine.
sweaty sock
Hacker
Depends on your comittee, if theres a legitimate reason for playing less than 18 then you can have net pars to make up the 18. No guidance ive seen on 'legitimate reason'.
Otherwise its net double bogies....
Otherwise its net double bogies....
