WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[IanMcC]

Can’t you just give him his HC Index and if necessary allocate him a new/different CDH No.

I could do, but without a handicap history, until he registers 20 scores, his index would be artificially generated. (As in, not best 8 from 20.) Anyway, nobody wants to lose their history, surely.

 

[IanMcC]

Can’t you just give him his HC Index and if necessary allocate him a new/different CDH No.

He needs a new cdh anyway. Scottish ones start with a 4. Welsh ones start with a 6.

 

[Old Skier]

I could do, but without a handicap history, until he registers 20 scores, his index would be artificially generated. (As in, not best 8 from 20.) Anyway, nobody wants to lose their history, surely.

But his index would have been based on his best 8 anyway so not sure why you would want to make work for yourself.

 

[IanMcC]

But his index would have been based on his best 8 anyway so not sure why you would want to make work for yourself.

Adding 20 rounds is not a lot of work. It's not about workload, it's about making it as right as it can be for my members. His index of 9.1 is currently based on his best 8 from Scotland. If I just allocate him 9.1 then he is liable to the higher adjustments that a player with no history incurs. Would you want that if you moved country?

 

[Old Skier]

Adding 20 rounds is not a lot of work. It's not about workload, it's about making it as right as it can be for my members. His index of 9.1 is currently based on his best 8 from Scotland. If I just allocate him 9.1 then he is liable to the higher adjustments that a player with no history incurs. Would you want that if you moved country?

Now I understand where your coming from, my mistake.

 

[wjemather]

Can’t you just give him his HC Index and if necessary allocate him a new/different CDH No.

But his index would have been based on his best 8 anyway so not sure why you would want to make work for yourself.

CONGU guidance advises creating the record using the most recent 20.

If you don't recreate the history this way, the index will become the best one of 3 new scores (minus 2) very quickly, then best one of 4 (minus 1), etc.

 

[Old Skier]

CONGU guidance advises creating the record using the most recent 20.

If you don't recreate the history this way, the index will become the best one of 3 new scores (minus 2) very quickly, then best one of 4 (minus 1), etc.

Realized the error of my ways.

 

[3offTheTee]

There is new guy at our Club, plays in our group and has a handicap of around 9. He wants a low handicap . I was told last year he said he was submitting a supplementary score, he has about 5 scores submitted. When the round was not going to plan he changed his mind and binned the card. He has played before no idea of the details but was in Dubai.

Vanity I know but any thoughts would be appreciated apart from telling him it is wrong. Is there a specific rule please?

 

[IanMcC]

There is new guy at our Club, plays in our group and has a handicap of around 9. He wants a low handicap . I was told last year he said he was submitting a supplementary score, he has about 5 scores submitted. When the round was not going to plan he changed his mind and binned the card. He has played before no idea of the details but was in Dubai.

Vanity I know but any thoughts would be appreciated apart from telling him it is wrong. Is there a specific rule please?

If he pre registers and does not submit a score then he should be awarded a penalty score of Course Rating + Course Handicap.

 

[3offTheTee]

If he pre registers and does not submit a score then he should be awarded a penalty score of Course Rating + Course Handicap.

Thanks for the swift reply. However The Course rating is 71.1 plus his Course handicap of say 9 which is not a penalty

 

[wjemather]

Thanks for the swift reply. However The Course rating is 71.1 plus his Course handicap of say 9 which is not a penalty

Since he was clearly attempting to keep his handicap low, the penalty score should be equal to the highest differential on his record (per CONGU's guidance G7.1b).

 

[IanMcC]

Thanks for the swift reply. However The Course rating is 71.1 plus his Course handicap of say 9 which is not a penalty

It depends on how you define penalty. That is the correct method to apply a Penalty Score under WHS. If the M&H committee feel he is trying to manipulate his score downwards, then the other option is to take the route described above. I would advise intervening verbally with the golfer before going down this route, however. It is almost certain to create I'll feeling.

 

[3offTheTee]

It depends on how you define penalty. That is the correct method to apply a Penalty Score under WHS. If the M&H committee feel he is trying to manipulate his score downwards, then the other option is to take the route described above. I would advise intervening verbally with the golfer before going down this route, however. It is almost certain to create I'll feeling.

Appreciate both your comments and advice/guidance. People in our Group are aware of what he has done/is doing and initially having a word would seem a practical way forward.

I have not seen him rip up the cards but I have been told by a couple of people and will see what happens.

 

[Swango1980]

Appreciate both your comments and advice/guidance. People in our Group are aware of what he has done/is doing and initially having a word would seem a practical way forward.

I have not seen him rip up the cards but I have been told by a couple of people and will see what happens.

I assume he pre registers before the round? If so, the Committee will surely notice, sooner or later, several unreturned scores from this player, and will start asking questions. The system now automatically applies penalty scores equal to CR plus Course Handicap (I believe this software was changed to to this at the back end of last season), but they could then change these to high penalty scores once they find out why he is ripping up his scores.

Furthermore, he is like to get a warning, and beyond that disciplinary procedures may be implemented, such as handicap suspension, competition ban, etc.

So, I am not sure how easy it is for a player to fiddle things without Committee becoming aware. For example, failing to pre register, shooting a specific desirable score, registering after the round and entering score sometime after that.

 

[IanMcC]

Adding 20 rounds is not a lot of work. It's not about workload, it's about making it as right as it can be for my members. His index of 9.1 is currently based on his best 8 from Scotland. If I just allocate him 9.1 then he is liable to the higher adjustments that a player with no history incurs. Would you want that if you moved country?

Update. The guy sent through screenshots of his last 20 rounds, and I have added them to his Wales Golf CDH, with the resulting Handicap Index matching his Scottish Golf figure. Happy Days.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Appreciate both your comments and advice/guidance. People in our Group are aware of what he has done/is doing and initially having a word would seem a practical way forward.

I have not seen him rip up the cards but I have been told by a couple of people and will see what happens.

Why is he not registering on the App? it would apply the penalty score automatically.

 

[Old Skier]

I assume he pre registers before the round? If so, the Committee will surely notice, sooner or later, several unreturned scores from this player, and will start asking questions. The system now automatically applies penalty scores equal to CR plus Course Handicap (I believe this software was changed to to this at the back end of last season), but they could then change these to high penalty scores once they find out why he is ripping up his scores.

Furthermore, he is like to get a warning, and beyond that disciplinary procedures may be implemented, such as handicap suspension, competition ban, etc.

So, I am not sure how easy it is for a player to fiddle things without Committee becoming aware. For example, failing to pre register, shooting a specific desirable score, registering after the round and entering score sometime after that.

It appears that the HC arnt doing what they are supposed to or haven't got any systems in place to check on those that are registering at the club manually. Replying on people using technology will mean people will slip through the net.

 

[Old Skier]

Why is he not registering on the App? it would apply the penalty score automatically.

Not everyone has or uses the app, at the club we have a general play book which you sign into if your not on the technology and regular checks are made between the book and cards returned against the system.

 

[3offTheTee]

Why is he not registering on the App? it would apply the penalty score automatically.

This is also for Swango and appreciate both comments. I was only advised last week. He does not register prior to going out, picks up a card, states “ I am going to submit a Supplementary score” and then changes his mind!

I will have a word initially and explain the possible/ probable penalty as advised by WJEM if it happens again.

 

[Old Skier]

This is also for Swango and appreciate both comments. I was only advised last week. He does not register prior to going out, picks up a card, states “ I am going to submit a Supplementary score” and then changes his mind!

I will have a word initially and explain the possible/ probable penalty as advised by WJEM if it happens again.

He's also breaking the rules around Gen Play cards as he MUST pre register before play.