WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[mikejohnchapman]

England Golf have corrected the penalty score so it is now CR+CH.....no explanation as to how the initial error arose mind.

Interesting - both our players who attracted penalty scores have now been given a HI cut. Doesn't feel right to me but as EG are not communicating I guess they have decided it's OK to improve without playing.

At lease my fears about padding their handicaps are now void.

 

[IanMcC]

CR+CH will usually result in a cut.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting - both our players who attracted penalty scores have now been given a HI cut. Doesn't feel right to me but as EG are not communicating I guess they have decided it's OK to improve without playing.

At lease my fears about padding their handicaps are now void.

As Ian said, more often than not, CR+Course Handicap penalty score will get a minor handicap cut, unless the oldest score being lost was one of the players best (one of their top 3 or 4 scores)

 

[nickjdavis]

As Ian said, more often than not, CR+Course Handicap penalty score will get a minor handicap cut, unless the oldest score being lost was one of the players best (one of their top 3 or 4 scores)

Try telling that to England Golf who are currently arguing with me and saying that a score of CR+CH wont necessarily be part of a players best 8....they clearly don't understand their own system.

 

[Swango1980]

Try telling that to England Golf who are currently arguing with me and saying that a score of CR+CH wont necessarily be part of a players best 8....they clearly don't understand their own system.

Well, their only caveat will be if their 20th oldest score was one of their very top scores. So, I'd estimate 75-85% of the time it would result in a decrease in Index.

 

[nickjdavis]

Well, their only caveat will be if their 20th oldest score was one of their very top scores. So, I'd estimate 75-85% of the time it would result in a decrease in Index.

No i get that.

What they are saying is that a penalty score of CH+CR wont necessarily be one of a players best 8 scores. Irrespective of whether a great score wash pushed out of the last 20 or not, the penalty score will always become one of the best 8 scores in a players record by virtue of simple maths.

 

[IanMcC]

Maybe not, but by putting it in a players record it is a penalty, because it will be one of their best 8 soon. Are EG honestly trying to defend 18 NDB?

 

[Swango1980]

No i get that.

What they are saying is that a penalty score of CH+CR wont necessarily be one of a players best 8 scores. Irrespective of whether a great score wash pushed out of the last 20 or not, the penalty score will always become one of the best 8 scores in a players record by virtue of simple maths.

Were you talking to the janitor at England Golf? If it was someone through their support, it is handy if they give the job to people that understand the basics at least

 

[Swango1980]

I've just noticed that the Booking page on howdidido has changed. It now shows a calendar. If you click on a date, if there is no competition booked in, it appears to allow you to reserve slots for Casual Golf. This is all very well, but it shows all slots outside comps are available for booking. I know this cannot be correct, because most of these slots have already been booked up at our club using BRS booking.

I'm just a regular member at my new club, but maybe it is something for anyone in here using howdidido to look into. It seems that this could cause double bookings if members start to use both systems?

 

[wjemather]

I've just noticed that the Booking page on howdidido has changed. It now shows a calendar. If you click on a date, if there is no competition booked in, it appears to allow you to reserve slots for Casual Golf. This is all very well, but it shows all slots outside comps are available for booking. I know this cannot be correct, because most of these slots have already been booked up at our club using BRS booking.

I'm just a regular member at my new club, but maybe it is something for anyone in here using howdidido to look into. It seems that this could cause double bookings if members start to use both systems?

Sounds like your club simply haven't configured booking correctly.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Looks like HDID is going to get a proximity upgrade!

Notice from Club Systems.

Safeguarding Handicap Integrity
The GB&I Golfing governing bodies will be introducing new regulations for the returning of General Play Scores for the purpose of “Safeguarding Handicap Integrity”.

These regulations stipulate a maximum distance that the player can be from the club when a round is pre-registered and a score is returned using a mobile device. They are also stipulating a minimum duration between pre-registration and score submission.

These distance/time limits are as follows for the different home unions;
England 2 Miles/3.2km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18
Ireland 1.86 Miles 3Km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18
Scotland 1 Mile/1.6Km – minimum 45 minutes for 9 hole, 1 hour 30 minutes for 18
Wales 1.86 Miles/3Km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18

Other National Federations/Unions have not informed us of any updates in their regulations.

In order for us to pinpoint your clubs location, and manage the above from within our software automatically, please check/set your Longitude and Latitude in ClubV1 > Club > Settings > Club Details. This Longitude and Latitude setting should be set for a location where your club wish us to start this measurement, not necessarily from the club house or first tee. To find your Longitude and Latitude, right click on the desired position on Google maps. If a member does not have location (GPS) services enabled on his/her mobile device, a score cannot be pre-registered or submitted.

 

[jim8flog]

Annual Handicap Review

I was bit surprised to see the instruction from EG to carry out an annual handicap review between October and December. The WHS has only been going just over a year and due to lockdowns and unsuitable course due to weather we have realisticly only had 7 months of playing during 2021..

 

[wjemather]

Annual Handicap Review

I was bit surprised to see the instruction from EG to carry out an annual handicap review between October and December. The WHS has only been going just over a year and due to lockdowns and unsuitable course due to weather we have realisticly only had 7 months of playing during 2021..

True. However, many people only play March/April to October anyway, and many of the rest will not submit scores for handicap over winter (due to unrated courses, unacceptable local rules, etc.).

 

[rulefan]

Annual Handicap Review

I was bit surprised to see the instruction from EG to carry out an annual handicap review between October and December. The WHS has only been going just over a year and due to lockdowns and unsuitable course due to weather we have realisticly only had 7 months of playing during 2021..

But note that
"It is not recommended that a committee should consider all members’ handicaps for adjustment."
It is certainly not as onerous this year

 

[rosecott]

Looks like HDID is going to get a proximity upgrade!

Notice from Club Systems.

Safeguarding Handicap Integrity
The GB&I Golfing governing bodies will be introducing new regulations for the returning of General Play Scores for the purpose of “Safeguarding Handicap Integrity”.

These regulations stipulate a maximum distance that the player can be from the club when a round is pre-registered and a score is returned using a mobile device. They are also stipulating a minimum duration between pre-registration and score submission.

These distance/time limits are as follows for the different home unions;
England 2 Miles/3.2km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18
Ireland 1.86 Miles 3Km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18
Scotland 1 Mile/1.6Km – minimum 45 minutes for 9 hole, 1 hour 30 minutes for 18
Wales 1.86 Miles/3Km – minimum 1 hour for 9 holes, 2 hours for 18

Other National Federations/Unions have not informed us of any updates in their regulations.

In order for us to pinpoint your clubs location, and manage the above from within our software automatically, please check/set your Longitude and Latitude in ClubV1 > Club > Settings > Club Details. This Longitude and Latitude setting should be set for a location where your club wish us to start this measurement, not necessarily from the club house or first tee. To find your Longitude and Latitude, right click on the desired position on Google maps. If a member does not have location (GPS) services enabled on his/her mobile device, a score cannot be pre-registered or submitted.

This has already been activated by the last software update from Handicapmaster and General Play rounds pre-registered using Masterscoreboard are restricted by geo-location.

 

[jim8flog]

But note that
"It is not recommended that a committee should consider all members’ handicaps for adjustment."
It is certainly not as onerous this year

The requirement has not been 'review all players' for many years.

You run the Annual Review Report and it presents a list of those recommended for review.

However the list is much shorter than previous years.

 

[jim8flog]

True. However, many people only play March/April to October anyway, and many of the rest will not submit scores for handicap over winter (due to unrated courses, unacceptable local rules, etc.).

We run comps all year round and judging by the booking sheets etc we do not see a very great fall off of entrants in winter.

One of the requirements is that it should be based upon scores over 1 year, seems a bit contra when most courses will have been completely closed during lockdowns or being in a 'wrong' tier.

 

[wjemather]

We run comps all year round and judging by the booking sheets etc we do not see a very great fall off of entrants in winter.

One of the requirements is that it should be based upon scores over 1 year, seems a bit contra when most courses will have been completely closed during lockdowns or being in a 'wrong' tier.

As do we, but only having a little over 4 hours of daylight tee times in winter inevitably reduces competition entries. We are also fortunate to have a free draining course in southern England, and have our winter tees rated - even so, we still lose at least a month of comps each year to bad weather (frost, sub-zero temperatures, snow, prolonged heavy rain, etc.). Many clubs are severely hampered by wet weather, are not setup acceptably for WHS, or are still battling with county raters to get their winter tees rated.

If we had no golf throughout the summer it would be different, but I'm not seeing any major issue with having annual reviews this year, even with 4-5 months of winter/early spring being lost.

 

[rulefan]

Handicaps should be reviewed and this seems to be an appropriate time. There is nothing to stop a committee doing ad hoc reviews through the year.
This review, whilst not necessarily producing many (or any) adjustments could well highlight players to be watched during the spring/summer. Which might help under resourced committees.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Handicaps should be reviewed and this seems to be an appropriate time. There is nothing to stop a committee doing ad hoc reviews through the year.
This review, whilst not necessarily producing many (or any) adjustments could well highlight players to be watched during the spring/summer. Which might help under resourced committees.

Agreed, and we have maybe half a dozen at most that we'd look at on that basis. But I wouldn't like to look at any and adjust them without seeing what a level playing field report would throw out for all players. Our problem seems to be that Scottish Golf haven't been able to create a report like we used to get from Club 2000, they're saying Feb for the release, but that's rather cutting things fine.