WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[mikejohnchapman]

We have just had our first 2 penalty scores applied - one was from a MyEnglandGolf registered score (away) and one via HDID at home.

In both cases the score was not CR + CH as advertised but 18 X NDB - big scores.

If this stays it will be spotted by some as a way to pad their handicap I fear.

 

[wjemather]

We have just had our first 2 penalty scores applied - one was from a MyEnglandGolf registered score (away) and one via HDID at home.

In both cases the score was not CR + CH as advertised but 18 X NDB - big scores.

If this stays it will be spotted by some as a way to pad their handicap I fear.

If padding is suspected, the PS SDs should be changed to reflect the lowest counting SD; and repeat offenders should have their index suspended.

 

[rulefan]

I am no longer at the sharp end of the handicap system management (ie don't press any buttons) but have been asked - when a player gets a 'un-entered score' penalty warning from the system, is a message also sent to the club?
We happen to use V1/HDID but I assume the message(s) are sent directly from WHS.

 

[Swango1980]

If padding is suspected, the PS SDs should be changed to reflect the lowest counting SD; and repeat offenders should have their index suspended.

Padding or not, if the penalty score is as mike states, that is worrying and bizarre. I would like to think most NRs have nothing to do with players trying to manipulate their handicap, they are to do with forgetfulness. If that is the case, the WHS guidance is to add a penalty score of CR+Course Handicap. The WHS guidance of adding a penalty score equal to a players worst score in 20 applies if there is a feeling that player was trying to manipulate their handicap downwards (i.e. not submitting bad scores). Even that penalty score should be well below 18 X NDB. So, if the IT is automatically doing what Mike says, I think that is a ridiculous oversight.

 

[rulefan]

We have just had our first 2 penalty scores applied - one was from a MyEnglandGolf registered score (away) and one via HDID at home.
In both cases the score was not CR + CH as advertised but 18 X NDB - big scores.

In the case above (our first it seems) the player was 'experimenting' with the HDID app. He 'registered' and did nothing else. His penalty score was 18 x NDB.

But was this a function of the HDID or WHS software?

 

[wjemather]

I am no longer at the sharp end of the handicap system management (ie don't press any buttons) but have been asked - when a player gets a 'un-entered score' penalty warning from the system, is a message also sent to the club?
We happen to use V1/HDID but I assume the message(s) are sent directly from WHS.

There do not appear to be any club notifications; committees must manually run a report on EG's WHS Platform.

The lack of engagement with club committees over this is very apparent in the way it's been implemented. It seems to me that it has been done primarily to ensure PSs are applied, probably because they was a feeling that committees were being too lenient (or simply ignoring unreturned scores), rather than (as promoted) reduce committee workloads.

 

[wjemather]

With regards to 18xNDB, I'm wondering if the intent actually holds all the necessary information about the course and set of tees being played. If it does, why hasn't this been made visible to clubs? Would have made chasing missing away scores a lot easier as players rightly assume you have these details already. And if not, why isn't the PS simply recorded against a dummy course in order to achieve the desired SD (i.e. roughly equal to HI)?

 

[nickjdavis]

On the back of the above I just checked our "penalty score" report.

We have had a penalty score applied (this morning at just gone midnight) to one of our players (an away round) and can confirm the penalty score was nett double bogeys on every hole.

According to the system he played a round on the Sunday and registered and entered that score successfully, but seemingly registered for a round on the Monday, but hasn't entered a score.

 

[rulefan]

I wonder how many 'ghost' registration entries arise because of players 'just trying the system' to see how it works.

 

[nickjdavis]

I wonder how many 'ghost' registration entries arise because of players 'just trying the system' to see how it works.

We probably had quite a few in the early days but the number has definitely dropped off in the intervening months.

Our H'cap Sec has written to England Golf asking why the penalty score is NDB and not CR+CH as they stated it should be.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I am no longer at the sharp end of the handicap system management (ie don't press any buttons) but have been asked - when a player gets a 'un-entered score' penalty warning from the system, is a message also sent to the club?
We happen to use V1/HDID but I assume the message(s) are sent directly from WHS.

Yes the message is from WHS to the player. No copy to the club.

However, some new reports have arrived on the EG platform which show penalty scores applied as well as unsatisfied score intents.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

In the case above (our first it seems) the player was 'experimenting' with the HDID app. He 'registered' and did nothing else. His penalty score was 18 x NDB.

But was this a function of the HDID or WHS software?

I think it's general as one was from MyEnglandGolf app and one from HDID.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

There do not appear to be any club notifications; committees must manually run a report on EG's WHS Platform.

The lack of engagement with club committees over this is very apparent in the way it's been implemented. It seems to me that it has been done primarily to ensure PSs are applied, probably because they was a feeling that committees were being too lenient (or simply ignoring unreturned scores), rather than (as promoted) reduce committee workloads.

I think an equally large concern is for iGolf where the MyEnglandGolf app allows the user to remove unsatisfied score intents.

 

[wjemather]

I think an equally large concern is for iGolf where the MyEnglandGolf app allows the user to remove unsatisfied score intents.

Indeed. I'm sure that's been done purely to save EG requiring a support facility for iGolf subscribers who pre-register in error. It now means committees have to monitor the deleted intents report and assess the reasons given for deletion.

 

[IanMcC]

I am so glad I ask players to pre-register with me, rather than some daft app, if they want to submit a General Play Score.
No Unsatisfied Score Intents, 34 Penalty Scores, all applied by me, and all of them CH + CR. (All for not returning cards either electronically or physically.)
No need for any deletions.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am so glad I ask players to pre-register with me, rather than some daft app, if they want to submit a General Play Score.
No Unsatisfied Score Intents, 34 Penalty Scores, all applied by me, and all of them CH + CR. (All for not returning cards either electronically or physically.)
No need for any deletions.

How do you stop people using the EG App when they add their scores in ?

 

[IanMcC]

How do you stop people using the EG App when they add their scores in ?

No one does it. They are all 'trained' to pre-register with me, even if its a round in England or Scotland. Its a simple email or text before the round, then they send me a pic of the card and i process it.
Its Wales Golf for me, btw.

 

[Swango1980]

No one does it. They are all 'trained' to pre-register with me, even if its a round in England or Scotland. Its a simple email or text before the round, then they send me a pic of the card and i process it.
Its Wales Golf for me, btw.

Very well trained and obedient members. At my place, not a chance in heaven that would have worked. I'd also have expected a few complaints as soon as they realised they could just do it on the app, like their mates at other clubs do.

Also impressed with your dedication. With so many scores coming in at our place, that would have taken over my life.

I decided there was no choice but to go with the flow, warts and all. If the authorities are pushing us that way, might as well dive in. Loads of mistakes, loads of not pre registering but submitting a score, loads of no returns, etc. All the stuff that made me crazy as handicap sec, and why I could have been well tempted to enforce more control like yourself. But, I just hoped that, over time, WHS would get better, tech would get better, and member awareness would get better.

 

[rulefan]

Very well trained and obedient members. At my place, not a chance in heaven that would have worked. I'd also have expected a few complaints as soon as they realised they could just do it on the app, like their mates at other clubs do.

Also impressed with your dedication. With so many scores coming in at our place, that would have taken over my life.

I decided there was no choice but to go with the flow, warts and all. If the authorities are pushing us that way, might as well dive in. Loads of mistakes, loads of not pre registering but submitting a score, loads of no returns, etc. All the stuff that made me crazy as handicap sec, and why I could have been well tempted to enforce more control like yourself. But, I just hoped that, over time, WHS would get better, tech would get better, and member awareness would get better.

All our members use the HDID app and there haven't been any dissenters. The only problem has been the one I mentioned above. I am waiting to see what happens when our PSIs are back in action.

 

[nickjdavis]

Our H'cap Sec has written to England Golf asking why the penalty score is NDB and not CR+CH as they stated it should be.

England Golf have corrected the penalty score so it is now CR+CH.....no explanation as to how the initial error arose mind.