WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[wjemather]

I registered a score intent last Friday and have deliberately not uploaded my score to see how the new process might work. Six days on and there is no sign of any automated penalties being applied, neither have I had any warnings/chasing emails.

I'd hope for some proper communication from EG before activating such features. Also, as yet there is no "Penalty Score report" on the portal, which is a critical part of this for handicap committees.

It's a shame EG do not communicate directly with handicap committees and rely on club management (often via county unions) to forward these things on.

 

[IanMcC]

I know there are ways and means around it via apps, but I tell my members that if they want to pre-register a round, they do it with me via email, text, whatsapp etc. Its a little extra work, but there is no 'manipulation'. If they don't submit a card, without a valid reason, then a penalty score is applied. I've only had to apply a penalty score once for a non return of a pre-registered card.
We were getting 2 or 3 a day in the summer. I know other clubs have more, but we have 3 qualifying comps a week in the Summer months, so no great need for extras.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I registered a score intent last Friday and have deliberately not uploaded my score to see how the new process might work. Six days on and there is no sign of any automated penalties being applied, neither have I had any warnings/chasing emails.

Supposed to start at the end of November.

 

[rulefan]

Supposed to start at the end of November.

Do you have a source for that?

 

[Old Skier]

I'd hope for some proper communication from EG before activating such features. Also, as yet there is no "Penalty Score report" on the portal, which is a critical part of this for handicap committees.

It's a shame EG do not communicate directly with handicap committees and rely on club management (often via county unions) to forward these things on.

I presumed the email that went out to clubs was the communication however I agree, a “Penalty Score Report” would be useful.

 

[wjemather]

I presumed the email that went out to clubs was the communication however I agree, a “Penalty Score Report” would be useful.

Disappointing if that is all we get. I'd like to know exactly how it is going to work before it happens; specifically, I'd like to know if it only applies to MyEG pre-registrations? This was my initial assumption, however the wording of the comms suggests all intents are covered... If it does also apply to ISV-registered intents, what direction is being given to submit the score (given ISV software only allows score submission on the day of registration)? And per my earlier comment, for most committees, competitions generate the bulk of their unreturned scores and since no intent gets registered by ISVs for competition scores these will fall through the gap (chasm) here. It would also be good to know the exact wording of the email. Etc., etc., etc.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Do you have a source for that?

Second hand from our regional handicap rep who was on an England Golf briefing. Can't remember if she said 26th or 29th November for implementation. I presume this will be for MyEnglandGolf app as it's unlikely HDID will change that quickly.

I still wonder if this will operate at the WHS platform level and not the ISV level but I guess we will see.

 

[nickjdavis]

. I presume this will be for MyEnglandGolf app as it's unlikely HDID will change that quickly.

.

Surely it shouldnt matter which app is used. The DotGolf platform knows when a score intent is registered using the clubs competition management software (MasterScoreboard App working as the front end of Handicapmaster in my clubs case) and can see that a score has not been submitted so can apply the penalty score in its own system which then becomes part of the players record on his home clubs system when the two systems synchronise.

To my mind I don't see ANY work involved at all for the front end suppliers....after all, it is no different from your handicap secretary entering a penalty score manually in the Dotgolf platform.

 

[wjemather]

Surely it shouldnt matter which app is used. The DotGolf platform knows when a score intent is registered using the clubs competition management software (MasterScoreboard App working as the front end of Handicapmaster in my clubs case) and can see that a score has not been submitted so can apply the penalty score in its own system which then becomes part of the players record on his home clubs system when the two systems synchronise.

To my mind I don't see ANY work involved at all for the front end suppliers....after all, it is no different from your handicap secretary entering a penalty score manually in the Dotgolf platform.

Seems fairly obvious that a competition sign-in should generate an intent, but this does not happen with ClubV1 (and IG afaik); i.e. they do not generate unfulfilled intents on WHS for unreturned competition scores.

How does HM function in this regard?

 

[nickjdavis]

Seems fairly obvious that a competition sign-in should generate an intent, but this does not happen with ClubV1 (and IG afaik); i.e. they do not generate unfulfilled intents on WHS for unreturned competition scores.

How does HM function in this regard?

Unfortunately we currently do not get players to pre-register/ sign in for competitions via a PSI as we do not have one (We've been trying to get one for a few months but there are seemingly supply issues...surprise surprise!!) so cannot comment on whether HM/MasterScoreboard generates an unfulfilled score intent when a player registers for a comp but does not enter a score.....as you say...you would think it would be a no-brainer that an intent was generated, but, we have all learned over the last 2 years that, what we think are no brainers, EG simply fail to grasp the same concept.

My comments were specifically related to general play scores registered via the local club App (as opposed to MyEG) for which the "new" automated penalties will be generated. I was addressing mikejohnchapmans question which, given the prior discussion, I assumed was about the application of penalty scores for unfulfilled general play intents registered via the ISV app.

Communication from EG this afternoon indicates the 29th as the "go-live" date for automated general play penalties.

 

[Old Skier]

All our comps you must pre register before play either via PSI or in the case of the seniors sections via the sign in book held by the shop. Member of the relevant committee then does a quick check to ensure all cards are accounted for at the end of the comp. Any discrepancies are dealt with by the HC member for that section.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Seems fairly obvious that a competition sign-in should generate an intent, but this does not happen with ClubV1 (and IG afaik); i.e. they do not generate unfulfilled intents on WHS for unreturned competition scores.

How does HM function in this regard?

I think the penalty score announcement was General Play only.

 

[2blue]

I haven't tested or seen it myself but that is what CSIcare diagnosed as the cause after I reported the following happening occasionally... Originally scores were increased by a duplicate 18 holes to make a 36 hole score, but since being "fixed" it now records only 9 actual scores and 9 zeros doubled up for a 36 hole score. Obviously this nonsense gets rejected by WHS, but the intent remains unsatisfied.

Yeah we've had this 36 hole business... have reported it but we put it down to out erratic Wifii connection. ... so interested in in your post.

 

[wjemather]

I think the penalty score announcement was General Play only.

Indeed, but GP is a very small proportion of most committee workloads. If EG really want to make like easier, they need to go much further and work with the ISVs on competition scores.

 

[Swango1980]

Indeed, but GP is a very small proportion of most committee workloads. If EG really want to make like easier, they need to go much further and work with the ISVs on competition scores.

Personally, I felt general play scores caused the biggest headache.

Competitions were easy, firstly as scores at our club were processed by the comp sec, not handicap sec (albeit when WHS we needed to discuss appropriate penalty scores). However, as the field was known, it was easy to know who no returned, and it was easy to know when these rounds were played and thus scores expected.

General play rounds were a pain as they are played daily, and by many different / random people. Some of them never play comps as well, so their ability to follow procedure was often lacking. I wasn't going to go chasing or dealing with scores daily, so an automatic penalty would have been great assistance.

That being said, I still agree that it should be consistent for both general play and competition rounds.

 

[Griffsters]

Has anyone seen anything regarding how its decided what penalty is applied? There is some nuance involved regarding individual players - its possible a penalty score would be a good result dependent on circumstance

 

[wjemather]

Has anyone seen anything regarding how its decided what penalty is applied? There is some nuance involved regarding individual players - its possible a penalty score would be a good result dependent on circumstance

I understand that CR+Course Handicap will be applied automatically (the assumption being that no manipulation is intended), and handicap committees should review and adjust to a high/low differential if necessary.

 

[Griffsters]

Thanks, so effectively its processing intents rather than 'penalty' as such. Still quite a bit of monitoring to be done - it would be good to have some more customisable reports available to see trends over a season etc

Still, it seems to be moving in the right direction I think.

 

[Swango1980]

Might have been mentioned before, but seems it is not possible to submit 2 general play scores in 1 day using howdidido. Played this morning, and then we went out for another 9. Wouldn't allow me to pre register as it said I had already pre registered today (even though that score had already been submitted)

 

[Golfie]

Course rating + course handicap - not much penalty would be one of my best eight. I can see some players happy with that outcome.