WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[Swango1980]

The "new index" being shown by MyEG is really a prediction - the same gets shown on the WHS platform, except that it is phrased "x.x changing to y.y tomorrow". As such, according to the WHS Platform, which is the master, your handicap index does not actually change until overnight recalculations are done.

Is that not confusing. I'll have to do it again to clarify what was shown on MyEG. But, on MyEG as far as I remember, it simply had my new Index showing immediately after round. There didn't appear to be any sign that it was a predicted Index. There was no note to say my official Index was the morning one, not the one shown. So, surely I can only play off what MyEG shows? It is likely my opponent would demand it.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Is that not confusing. I'll have to do it again to clarify what was shown on MyEG. But, on MyEG as far as I remember, it simply had my new Index showing immediately after round. There didn't appear to be any sign that it was a predicted Index. There was no note to say my official Index was the morning one, not the one shown. So, surely I can only play off what MyEG shows? It is likely my opponent would demand it.

It may work differently on the Scottish App, and I won't be able to check until Thursday, but on ours the new score from that day is italicised and greyed out with a "P" as pending, I'm assuming the EG App does something similar?

 

[Swango1980]

Nope, not from what I saw on Friday night. The layout of MyEG when you open it is it brings up your Dashboard, which shows:

Name
Index
Membership No
Home Club

Graph of last 20 scores
Scoring History

After inputting my score on Friday, my Dashboard was immediately updated to say my Index was 6.5 (it was 7.1 before the round). There was no other indication that this was pending.

When I looked the following morning, my Index simply changed to 6.6, as it turned out PCC was -1.

 

[nickjdavis]

Nope, not from what I saw on Friday night. The layout of MyEG when you open it is it brings up your Dashboard, which shows:

Name
Index
Membership No
Home Club

Graph of last 20 scores
Scoring History

After inputting my score on Friday, my Dashboard was immediately updated to say my Index was 6.5 (it was 7.1 before the round). There was no other indication that this was pending.

.

I can confirm that this is what the MyEG app does. However it is true to say that the app, at that time, has no knowledge of any PCC calculation that might be pending overnight, so I guess what is shown should be treated with a modicum of caution!!

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Nope, not from what I saw on Friday night. The layout of MyEG when you open it is it brings up your Dashboard, which shows:

Name
Index
Membership No
Home Club

Graph of last 20 scores
Scoring History

After inputting my score on Friday, my Dashboard was immediately updated to say my Index was 6.5 (it was 7.1 before the round). There was no other indication that this was pending.

When I looked the following morning, my Index simply changed to 6.6, as it turned out PCC was -1.

You only see 20 scores in total? Despite the inadequacies of the SG App, even we get the last 28.

 

[Swango1980]

I can confirm that this is what the MyEG app does. However it is true to say that the app, at that time, has no knowledge of any PCC calculation that might be pending overnight, so I guess what is shown should be treated with a modicum of caution!!

That is the issue. If MyEG, in the evening says my Index is 6.5, then surely I need to play off that. If I said I was going to assume it was 7.1, I can imagine my opponent would be outraged given MyEG says 6.5. I would feel their anger.

To be fair, it seems like MyEG does it right. It feels correct that my official Index should be 6.5 for that evening. Just in the same way that, pre-WHS we simply just had to assume our handicap would change based on the fact CSS would be zero. Interestingly, not sure yet if MyEG would show a higher handicap if my morning round was a stinker, and I lost a good round in the process as my 21st oldest.

 

[Swango1980]

You only see 20 scores in total? Despite the inadequacies of the SG App, even we get the last 28.

The graph only shows 20 scores. The scoring history shows 30

 

[ger147]

That is the issue. If MyEG, in the evening says my Index is 6.5, then surely I need to play off that. If I said I was going to assume it was 7.1, I can imagine my opponent would be outraged given MyEG says 6.5. I would feel their anger.

To be fair, it seems like MyEG does it right. It feels correct that my official Index should be 6.5 for that evening. Just in the same way that, pre-WHS we simply just had to assume our handicap would change based on the fact CSS would be zero. Interestingly, not sure yet if MyEG would show a higher handicap if my morning round was a stinker, and I lost a good round in the process as my 21st oldest.

The MyEG app does not do it right. Your new handicap index cannot be correctly calculated until the PCC for the day is known and therefore cannot be officially updated until the overnight calculation.

 

[nickjdavis]

The MyEG app does not do it right. Your new handicap index cannot be correctly calculated until the PCC for the day is known and therefore cannot be officially updated until the overnight calculation.

I tend to agree with this.

That is the issue. If MyEG, in the evening says my Index is 6.5, then surely I need to play off that. If I said I was going to assume it was 7.1, I can imagine my opponent would be outraged given MyEG says 6.5. I would feel their anger.

To be fair, it seems like MyEG does it right. It feels correct that my official Index should be 6.5 for that evening. Just in the same way that, pre-WHS we simply just had to assume our handicap would change based on the fact CSS would be zero. Interestingly, not sure yet if MyEG would show a higher handicap if my morning round was a stinker, and I lost a good round in the process as my 21st oldest.

Imagine if the PCC moved downwards so your score was not as good as you thought it might be? In all good intentions you play off the 6.5 that the live app is telling you and this affects the number of shots you get/give by 1 and then you find out the following day that your index didn't really drop like the app said it would and you effectively lost out by a shot?

I understand the desire to "do the right thing" and play off the "live handicap" that the app "gives" you.....but I guess somewhere there has to be an official "calculation point" and that should really be when the PCC is calculated for everyone....i.e. overnight.

 

[Swango1980]

I tend to agree with this.



Imagine if the PCC moved downwards so your score was not as good as you thought it might be? In all good intentions you play off the 6.5 that the live app is telling you and this affects the number of shots you get/give by 1 and then you find out the following day that your index didn't really drop like the app said it would and you effectively lost out by a shot?

I understand the desire to "do the right thing" and play off the "live handicap" that the app "gives" you.....but I guess somewhere there has to be an official "calculation point" and that should really be when the PCC is calculated for everyone....i.e. overnight.

I appreciate that, but you could say exactly the same thing when you assumed CSS was zero.

Have we not been told countless times that your handicap is what appears on the England Golf WHS? I have heard that quoted on multiple threads on Golf Monthly forums. This statement cannot be true if MyEG does this wrong.

If I am checking an opponents handicap, I tend to go to MyEG and find their handicap Index. If that is showing 6.5 rather than 7.1, because of an earlier round, then I'd automatically assume 6.5 must be their Index. If they claim they are playing of 7.1, I understand the argument (from an ex-handicap perspectives view, as I was always lead to believe your handicap cannot be changed during the day). However, as a club golfer, I can imagine this could cause some debate. Is there anywhere in the WHS manual or the CONGU reference guide that specifically states that a player's handicap must be what it started as on any particular day (unless the Committee specifically intervene and say you must play of something else, as I seem to remember Committee can make that decision themselves). I'm sure the guidance is somewhere, but struggling to find it in my quick skim through.

 

[wjemather]

I appreciate that, but you could say exactly the same thing when you assumed CSS was zero.

Have we not been told countless times that your handicap is what appears on the England Golf WHS? I have heard that quoted on multiple threads on Golf Monthly forums. This statement cannot be true if MyEG does this wrong.

If I am checking an opponents handicap, I tend to go to MyEG and find their handicap Index. If that is showing 6.5 rather than 7.1, because of an earlier round, then I'd automatically assume 6.5 must be their Index. If they claim they are playing of 7.1, I understand the argument (from an ex-handicap perspectives view, as I was always lead to believe your handicap cannot be changed during the day). However, as a club golfer, I can imagine this could cause some debate. Is there anywhere in the WHS manual or the CONGU reference guide that specifically states that a player's handicap must be what it started as on any particular day (unless the Committee specifically intervene and say you must play of something else, as I seem to remember Committee can make that decision themselves). I'm sure the guidance is somewhere, but struggling to find it in my quick skim through.

First, you need to forget about what used to happen under UHS. It's irrelevant.

The rules (5.4) state the following:

"A player’s Handicap Index should be updated no later than the day after a score was submitted, or as soon as possible thereafter.​

In a situation when a new round is played before the player’s Handicap Index has been updated, including when multiple rounds are played on the same day, it is recommended that the player uses their existing Handicap Index. However, in certain circumstances, the Committee in charge of the competition (or the Handicap Committee) has the discretion to decide what Playing Handicap the player should use (see Rule 7.2)."​

CONGU's guidance (G5.4) states the following:

"When a player plays in more than one competition on a single day, or in a 36-hole competition on one day, his/her handicap will not be automatically re-calculated between rounds."​

 

[Swango1980]

First, you need to forget about what used to happen under UHS. It's irrelevant.

The rules (5.4) state the following:

"A player’s Handicap Index should be updated no later than the day after a score was submitted, or as soon as possible thereafter.​

In a situation when a new round is played before the player’s Handicap Index has been updated, including when multiple rounds are played on the same day, it is recommended that the player uses their existing Handicap Index. However, in certain circumstances, the Committee in charge of the competition (or the Handicap Committee) has the discretion to decide what Playing Handicap the player should use (see Rule 7.2)."​

CONGU's guidance (G5.4) states the following:

"When a player plays in more than one competition on a single day, or in a 36-hole competition on one day, his/her handicap will not be automatically re-calculated between rounds."​

First sentence, I appreciate to an extent. However, when the argument is simply "you do not know what the PCC is", then I was simply making the point that that argument didn't hold pre WHS, so from a technical stand point why does it become important now (when the tech can accommodate playing multiple rounds per day it seems)

Cheers for the reference in bold. However, MyEG prove this statement to be technically incorrect, as it showed my Index was automatically re-calculated. I suspect England Golf simply need to be reminded of this error, and they can fix the MyEG app to fall in line with the CONGU guidance

 

[Chinny]

Here goes......
A couple of months ago I joined the Handicap and Competitions committee at my club who use Intelligent Golf.
I'm really enjoying the role and I'm learning quickly. I'm hoping one of the forum members will kindly assist with my question. (Message has been sent to IG but no reply as yet)
Club individual stroke play competition, player mistakenly enters their Course Handicap on their scorecard as 17 (Playing Handicap 16) when in fact it should be 18/17. Player bogies all 18 holes for 90 gross.
Under rule 3.3b(4) player's net score stands using the lower handicap (Not DQ) When player or committee enter players score into IG the software obviously doesn't know that the wrong handicap has been written on scorecard and shows total score as net 73 instead of net 74 using the lower handicap.
Is there a way to amend the net score to match the handicap on the card without changing one of the gross scores on the individual holes which I'm trying to avoid?
Thanks

 

[apj0524]

Here goes......
A couple of months ago I joined the Handicap and Competitions committee at my club who use Intelligent Golf.
I'm really enjoying the role and I'm learning quickly. I'm hoping one of the forum members will kindly assist with my question. (Message has been sent to IG but no reply as yet)
Club individual stroke play competition, player mistakenly enters their Course Handicap on their scorecard as 17 (Playing Handicap 16) when in fact it should be 18/17. Player bogies all 18 holes for 90 gross.
Under rule 3.3b(4) player's net score stands using the lower handicap (Not DQ) When player or committee enter players score into IG the software obviously doesn't know that the wrong handicap has been written on scorecard and shows total score as net 73 instead of net 74 using the lower handicap.
Is there a way to amend the net score to match the handicap on the card without changing one of the gross scores on the individual holes which I'm trying to avoid?
Thanks

I have not found a way to alter the hcps for the player once the comp has started to would be interested to see what IG say, however what we do is adjust their score on the holes where the get the extra shots, so if it was par 3 SI 12 and they are now playing 11 because they have used a lower HI I adjust their score by one shot. To start with some players complained so I said either accept they are playing off a lower hcp or I DQ them but the score stands for handicap purposes, they tend to accepted that and not make the mistake again.

If what I am doing wrong I'm happy to take advise

 

[Chinny]

I have not found a way to alter the hcps for the player once the comp has started to would be interested to see what IG say, however what we do is adjust their score on the holes where the get the extra shots, so if it was par 3 SI 12 and they are now playing 11 because they have used a lower HI I adjust their score by one shot. To start with some players complained so I said either accept they are playing off a lower hcp or I DQ them but the score stands for handicap purposes, they tend to accepted that and not make the mistake again.

If what I am doing wrong I'm happy to take advise

Thanks for your reply, I'm trying to avoid changing the score on an individual hole to avoid players complaining as you mention in your reply. I'm happy to share the reply from IG when one comes through.

Ta

 

[rulefan]

Here goes......
A couple of months ago I joined the Handicap and Competitions committee at my club who use Intelligent Golf.
I'm really enjoying the role and I'm learning quickly. I'm hoping one of the forum members will kindly assist with my question. (Message has been sent to IG but no reply as yet)
Club individual stroke play competition, player mistakenly enters their Course Handicap on their scorecard as 17 (Playing Handicap 16) when in fact it should be 18/17. Player bogies all 18 holes for 90 gross.
Under rule 3.3b(4) player's net score stands using the lower handicap (Not DQ) When player or committee enter players score into IG the software obviously doesn't know that the wrong handicap has been written on scorecard and shows total score as net 73 instead of net 74 using the lower handicap.
Is there a way to amend the net score to match the handicap on the card without changing one of the gross scores on the individual holes which I'm trying to avoid?
Thanks

I don't use IG but I assume you are talking about the initial input to IG competition management.
Won't the handicap on the card and entered into IG only relate to the competition results in IG? Won't the gross score and HI in the WHS be used for the differential when the data is transmitted to the WHS?

 

[Swango1980]

I don't use IG but I assume you are talking about the initial input to IG competition management.
Won't the handicap on the card and entered into IG only relate to the competition results in IG? Won't the gross score and HI in the WHS be used for the differential when the data is transmitted to the WHS?

Is that not what he is asking? How to adjust the score in the competition to reflect the handicap written on the card?

 

[rulefan]

Is that not what he is asking? How to adjust the score in the competition to reflect the handicap written on the card?

Shouldn't he be putting the PH used into IG?

 

[Swango1980]

Shouldn't he be putting the PH used into IG?

No idea how IG works. But, I am guessing the issue is that it automatically uses the Playing handicap calculated from the player's ACTUAL Course handicap. However, the player put the wrong COURSE handicap on the card, which would result in a lower PH than IG is using to work out the competition results. So, the OP wants to tell IG to use a lower PH to work out the result, based on the Course Handicap on the players card. By sounds of it, the OP cannot simply reduce the PH in the system?

 

[Chinny]

No idea how IG works. But, I am guessing the issue is that it automatically uses the Playing handicap calculated from the player's ACTUAL Course handicap. However, the player put the wrong COURSE handicap on the card, which would result in a lower PH than IG is using to work out the competition results. So, the OP wants to tell IG to use a lower PH to work out the result, based on the Course Handicap on the players card. By sounds of it, the OP cannot simply reduce the PH in the system?

Thanks all for all your replies.

Using IG the handicap index course handicap and playing handicap are all taken from WHS so all filled in automatically when player uploads their round via IG App. It appears at this moment those fields are locked and cannot be changed even by an administrator to reflect the lower handicap written on scorecard.

You'd like to think when the player is asked to confirm their score and finalise their card they would spot the discrepancy ie app says net 73 scorecard with wrong handicap saying net 74....

This has happened about 3 times now but luckily not affected any prizes, each player has been advised but I'm sure a day will come when someone does this and they are in the prizes. That's why I'm looking to resolve the issue now before that happens.

When I get reply from IG I'll post on this thread for all to see.

About the same number of players have written a higher course handicap on their scorecard and ended up being DQ'd

Stay Safe