WHS & ISV Issues (Please post only if you are a handicap secretary or involved in admin at your club)

[IanMcC]

Different course rating

If it was purely CR then the difference would be 2 shots. Or is it 50% difference? There is something in the guidance document. I don't consider myself particularly thick, but I can't make head nor tail of it! Why is an equity adjustment required in a team comp when each team has one player using each tee?

 

[rulefan]

I think it must be, but can you explain it to me, please? Why is equity adjustment required when each team is one lady and one gent, with all of the ladies playing one course and all the gents the other?

Clause 6.2b(ii)

 

[IanMcC]

I understand Clause 6.2b(ii). We use it every week in our Stableford comps where the men and ladies play against each other in a singles stableford comp using different tees. Our yellows to reds does work out as the ladies receiving one extra shot. Its maybe a blind spot on my part, but for the life of me I cannot see how this is relevant in a Mixed Greensome comp. The clause uses the phrase 'play to handicap'. How can you 'play to handicap' when you are only hitting every other shot, and someone using another set of tees is hitting the rest?

 

[wjemather]

I understand Clause 6.2b(ii). We use it every week in our Stableford comps where the men and ladies play against each other in a singles stableford comp using different tees. Our yellows to reds does work out as the ladies receiving one extra shot. Its maybe a blind spot on my part, but for the life of me I cannot see how this is relevant in a Mixed Greensome comp. The clause uses the phrase 'play to handicap'. How can you 'play to handicap' when you are only hitting every other shot, and someone using another set of tees is hitting the rest?

In mixed greensomes, teams can be M-F, F-F or M-M. For simplicity, the calculation is the same even if all pairs are M-F.

 

[IanMcC]

In mixed greensomes, teams can be M-F, F-F or M-M. For simplicity, the calculation is the same even if all pairs are M-F.

Thanks for this. Your succinct description explains everything. I wonder if there have ever been any mixed greensome comps in the history of golf that have had M-M or F-F allowed, however. I would doubt it.

 

[wjemather]

Thanks for this. Your succinct description explains everything. I wonder if there have ever been any mixed greensome comps in the history of golf that have had M-M or F-F allowed, however. I would doubt it.

It's likely that we will have soon, as we continue to open up the traditionally "men only" general club competitions to all members.

 

[rulefan]

Thanks for this. Your succinct description explains everything. I wonder if there have ever been any mixed greensome comps in the history of golf that have had M-M or F-F allowed, however. I would doubt it.

We have just run a successful mixed scramble (MMMM, MMFF, FFFF). I'm sure we'll see a mixed greensome or foursome as a Captains' social sooner or later.

 

[Old Skier]

We have just run a successful mixed scramble (MMMM, MMFF, FFFF). I'm sure we'll see a mixed greensome or foursome as a Captains' social sooner or later.

We have been doing mixed scrambles/any combination for years. As majority were drawn you didn’t know who you where playing with until the draw which was always balanced as much as possible.

 

[nickjdavis]

Quick Q for our Scottish Handicap Admins.

Can you confirm if the (course rating minus par) part of the Playing Handicap calculation is used in Scotland?

Cheers.

Would explain why I got a shot less than I was expecting when playing an open comp yesterday!!

 

[rulefan]

Quick Q for our Scottish Handicap Admins.

Can you confirm if the (course rating minus par) part of the Playing Handicap calculation is used in Scotland?

Cheers.

Would explain why I got a shot less than I was expecting when playing an open comp yesterday!!

I believe not but could it have been - "For GB&I, England, Wales and Ireland will be using the Rounded Course Handicap, whilst Scotland will be using the full calculated Course Handicap" ?

 

[nickjdavis]

I believe not but could it have been - "For GB&I, England, Wales and Ireland will be using the Rounded Course Handicap, whilst Scotland will be using the full calculated Course Handicap" ?

Even using the full calculated CH I can't figure out how they arrived at my PH.

Index: 8.7
Slope: 118
CR: 69.4
Par:70

I think it works out at 9....i got given 8.

 

[Swango1980]

Even using the full calculated CH I can't figure out how they arrived at my PH.

Index: 8.7
Slope: 118
CR: 69.4
Par:70

I think it works out at 9....i got given 8.

Was the comp set up as a mixed field, thus further adjustments being made due to the different sets of tees and course ratings that will apply to people?

 

[rosecott]

Even using the full calculated CH I can't figure out how they arrived at my PH.

Index: 8.7
Slope: 118
CR: 69.4
Par:70

I think it works out at 9....i got given 8.

Perhaps there is a Sassenach rule.

 

[nickjdavis]

Was the comp set up as a mixed field, thus further adjustments being made due to the different sets of tees and course ratings that will apply to people?

I'd considered that as a possibility but I'm pretty certain it was a men only comp.

Perhaps there is a Sassenach rule.

considered that as well!!!?

will see what I get for today's comp!!!

 

[Swango1980]

I'd considered that as a possibility but I'm pretty certain it was a men only comp.


considered that as well!!!?

will see what I get for today's comp!!!

It may have been set up as mixed, but no women actually enter. Not sure what happens if that is the case, not done it. But, I assume it would make the additional adjustments regardless?

 

[rulefan]

Even using the full calculated CH I can't figure out how they arrived at my PH.

Index: 8.7
Slope: 118
CR: 69.4
Par:70

I think it works out at 9....i got given 8.

What was your Course Handicap showing as?

 

[nickjdavis]

What was your Course Handicap showing as?

The prefilled card showed CH = 9 and PH = 8.

(the exact ungrounded CH would have been 9.0849....)

 

[rulefan]

The prefilled card showed CH = 9 and PH = 8.

(the exact ungrounded CH would have been 9.0849....)

* 95% = 8.6 which is what I worked it out as.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I'm beginning to hate Texas Scrambles!

For yesterday's Texas Scramble Club V1 decided to round (up or down) all the team handicaps, rather than going to one decimal place. Although when the bookings were made they did go to one decimal place. This actually made a difference because one team finished 2nd with 53.6 (54) whilst the next team finished with 54.2 (54), and of course the team finishing 3rd were placed 2nd on countback!!!!

ClubV1 claim this is a fix, and Texas Scramble handicaps should be rounded!!

Is this news? Or a known change?

In response to my question to them I received:

This was part of one the last ClubV1 updates within the past month. Please contact the WHS/Golf Union for further guidance on Texas Scramble calculations.

 

[wjemather]

I'm beginning to hate Texas Scrambles!

For yesterday's Texas Scramble Club V1 decided to round (up or down) all the team handicaps, rather than going to one decimal place. Although when the bookings were made they did go to one decimal place. This actually made a difference because one team finished 2nd with 53.6 (54) whilst the next team finished with 54.2 (54), and of course the team finishing 3rd were placed 2nd on countback!!!!

ClubV1 claim this is a fix, and Texas Scramble handicaps should be rounded!!

Is this news? Or a known change?

In response to my question to them I received:

This was part of one the last ClubV1 updates within the past month. Please contact the WHS/Golf Union for further guidance on Texas Scramble calculations.

Yes, under WHS, Playing Handicaps are rounded to the nearest whole number (Rule 6.2a).
You should be able to manually override the scorecard countback results if you wish to use something else, e.g. the decimal, as a tiebreaker?