WHS - is it an advantage to higher handicaps

[Deleted member 15344]

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/world-handicap-system-high-handicappers/

Or is it a case that the calculations they have done have incorrectly increased many peoples handicaps

Clearly when it comes to scrambles the level of shots given has increased massively to favour the higher handicaps

 

[sweaty sock]

I would say as a statistical group the variability in high handicap golfers means theres likely to be more 'exceptional' scores. Some clubs have good facilities available for new golfers to improve too. So, yes, I'd say high handicappers have the best chance at winning.

Whats no longer true, is something I used to use as an argument, that low handicappers, have won their fair share 'on the way down' as your handicap generally lagged behind your improving ability. Now your a low handicapper in the blink of an eye, so thats no longer true.

In theory the Playing handicap adjustment should give actual good golfers a more level playing field.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Too early to tell, all evidence at the moment seems anecdotal.

Stats that we see from April next year will be more factual

 

[Neilds]

Also, nobody has ever started a thread moaning about a low single figure player winning a medal or other competition so all we hear is people moaning when a higher handicap wins.

 

[nickjdavis]

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/world-handicap-system-high-handicappers/

Or is it a case that the calculations they have done have incorrectly increased many peoples handicaps

Clearly when it comes to scrambles the level of shots given has increased massively to favour the higher handicaps

Well....historically scrambles have always been biased towards teams of low handicappers....so nothing more than balancing out what has, historically been and hugely unfair format to high handicappers.

When we got our indexes for all the members of our club I did an analysis and it showed that 50% of players had a WHS index within 2 shots of their old Congu Handicap, 30% of players had a lower index and 20% had a higher index.

Just to highlight some unsubstantiated garbage from the article that in of itself proves nothing about the WHS...

At my home club, five of the seven medals or Stableford competitions held this season have been won by a golfer who had a Playing Handicap of at least 22.

Did the writer do any analysis of the proportion of entrants by handicap to determine if statistically 22 +handicappers were over-represented in terms of entry numbers?

A player with a World Handicap System index of around 23 is getting 28 shots, reduced to 27 with the Playing Handicap, in a competition off the the white tees at my club (rating 73.6, slope 136). I don’t care what kind of golfer you are, being given a bunch of extra shots – or perhaps a couple more if you take the old system into account – is going to give you some confidence and something to play with. It certainly did for me.

But because the Index is normalised for a course with a slope of 113 it is quite likely that the players old Congu handicap might have been anything from 26 to 30....did the writer care to check whether any players who were off 23 under Congu were still off 23 under the WHS and getting significantly more extra shots?

Its a lightweight article that offers no substance to support its opening line of "Early days of the World Handicap System show an advantage to those with more shots in the bank" and is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

[Bdill93]

See the results from a comp today at my place - https://www.howdidido.com/My/Result?sectionId=4631&compNumber=101971

Albeit only one sub 10 handicap playing today, next best was 14, but the table is very similar to what we had pre-whs now. This may be more of an issue with high slope courses, but ours isnt causing many issues. Weekend results are similar even with more sub 10 guys playing!

 

[PJ87]

The formula for calculating course handicaps is simply wrong.

We use the old American formula rather than the new formula they use

If we used it then it would take course rating into the handicap aswell

I'd get one less shot round my course using the new formula

And litterally the only difference between our formular and theirs is that we are using their OLD one.

So much for a WORLD handicap system

 

[ger147]

No.

 

[nickjdavis]

What is even more laughable is that the writer of the article attributes his better scoring to the confidence given by having the extra shots in his armoury.

When you actually look at his playing history on the WHS you can clearly see that his past record shows his index would have been 7.6 during early 2019!!!!!! So basically he was a good golfer, who went through a lean spell taking his index to 11.1 during last summer and is now getting back to where he should be. Summer 2019 his scores were around 87. Summer 2020 he was regularly shooting in the 90's and more recently he is back in the low to mid 80's.

 

[Swango1980]

At my club (Slope 133 off whites, 130 off yellows), excluding golfers who had played fewer than 20 rounds, these were the following comparisons between CONGU handicaps and WHS COURSE Handicaps, after taking the average for the change of each player:

CONGU 0-9: WHS +0.3
CONGU 10-14: WHS +0.6
CONGU 15-19: WHS +1.7
CONGU 20-24: WHS +2.4
CONGU 25-30: WHS +2.8
CONGU 30+: WHS +3.4

So, compared to the last system, higher handicappers have gained more shots than lower handicappers. Perhaps the argument will be that the last system was unfair to higher handicappers?

 

[Biggleswade Blue]

Surely whatever system you use for handicapping golfers is prone to some kind of statistical anomaly? Whatever system is used will favour one over another, and is arbitrary.

I'm new into this world. I still can't quite get my head the idea in sport of playing worse than an opponent, yet beating him. All it means is that I played better relative to my recent history than he did relative to his. The handicapping system just has to pick a way of deciding how to quantify "recent history".

 

[jim8flog]

If someone plays regularly in comps and has 20+ scores on their handicap record and a high handicap I do not see it as being and advantage.

It should be remembered that handicaps of up to 54 came in long before the WHS. It was just that originally the higher handicaps were Club Handicaps only and it was up to each individual club to decide whether or not to allow them to play in comps.

As said on another thread not seen any major differences where I play and we are 10 comps or so in since the restart after lockdown.

 

[jim8flog]

Probably the worst player at our club, that has played for many years, but has a good number of scores on his record went from CONGU 37 to 38.5 H.I. WHS and has yet to come even close to playing to handicap. His last win was in 2018 when his CONGU 28 was increased to 39 under the new max 54.

 

[chrisd]

Just before the WHS came in I was 14.4, but had worked hard on swing improvements

Next day I was 14.5

After 4 qualifying rounds in poor conditions and poor weather 15.2

Playing off whites yesterday in a friendly 17

I'm going to do some competition damage soon as the last round before the December lockdown I shot 74 gross

 

[Sats]

It depends on the high handicapper. I regularly play with a friend who's lucky to get 24 points in a round. Plays of 18.8 or 20 round ours. Poor bloke can't strike a match.

 

[davidy233]

It depends on the high handicapper. I regularly play with a friend who's lucky to get 24 points in a round. Plays of 18.8 or 20 round ours. Poor bloke can't strike a match.

Surely he'll be up to 28 in no time under WHS

 

[Sats]

Surely he'll be up to 28 in no time under WHS

He's climbing the ladder for sure.

 

[Imurg]

The one thing that I really struggle to get my head around is the long-term member of a club, who's handicap has been achieved solely by playing on his home course.
They've been playing 15 years, have a pre WHS handicap of 10
They p,ay to it on and off, eat it a few times a year and go up a bit but remain fairly steady, a shot or so either side of 10.
WHS comes in and his calculation gives him an Index of 10.7
His course has a Slope of 138
All of a sudden his course handicap is now 13....or 12 in competition
So, magically, he has gained 2 shots.
A handicap that was pretty stable at 10 is now 12 or 13...when playing on the same course
Why should he need extra shots around his own course when his previous handicap was maintained entirely by playing on that course....

 

[Smiffy]

Just before the WHS came in I was 14.4, but had worked hard on swing improvements

Next day I was 14.5

After 4 qualifying rounds in poor conditions and poor weather 15.2

Playing off whites yesterday in a friendly 17

I'm going to do some competition damage soon as the last round before the December lockdown I shot 74 gross

Just as long as they don't take your putting into account.....
????

 

[Smiffy]

Playing in friendly games with my mates we're just going to stick to our old tried and tested handicaps.