chrisd
Major Champion
Just as long as they don't take your putting into account.....
????
I've improved Rob, only 4 putting now!
Just as long as they don't take your putting into account.....
????
Because everyone else who plays the course will also have their handicaps adjusted in a similar manner? Not saying that's justification for changing to WHS, but if you take at face value that it makes handicaps more portable and that's why it was introduced, then as long as the change in your player's handicap remains consistent with everyone else who plays the course then he hasn't lost out on anything in practical terms.The one thing that I really struggle to get my head around is the long-term member of a club, who's handicap has been achieved solely by playing on his home course.
They've been playing 15 years, have a pre WHS handicap of 10
They p,ay to it on and off, eat it a few times a year and go up a bit but remain fairly steady, a shot or so either side of 10.
WHS comes in and his calculation gives him an Index of 10.7
His course has a Slope of 138
All of a sudden his course handicap is now 13....or 12 in competition
So, magically, he has gained 2 shots.
A handicap that was pretty stable at 10 is now 12 or 13...when playing on the same course
Why should he need extra shots around his own course when his previous handicap was maintained entirely by playing on that course....
Well....historically scrambles have always been biased towards teams of low handicappers....so nothing more than balancing out what has, historically been and hugely unfair format to high handicappers.
When we got our indexes for all the members of our club I did an analysis and it showed that 50% of players had a WHS index within 2 shots of their old Congu Handicap, 30% of players had a lower index and 20% had a higher index.
Just to highlight some unsubstantiated garbage from the article that in of itself proves nothing about the WHS...
At my home club, five of the seven medals or Stableford competitions held this season have been won by a golfer who had a Playing Handicap of at least 22.
Did the writer do any analysis of the proportion of entrants by handicap to determine if statistically 22 +handicappers were over-represented in terms of entry numbers?
A player with a World Handicap System index of around 23 is getting 28 shots, reduced to 27 with the Playing Handicap, in a competition off the the white tees at my club (rating 73.6, slope 136). I don’t care what kind of golfer you are, being given a bunch of extra shots – or perhaps a couple more if you take the old system into account – is going to give you some confidence and something to play with. It certainly did for me.
But because the Index is normalised for a course with a slope of 113 it is quite likely that the players old Congu handicap might have been anything from 26 to 30....did the writer care to check whether any players who were off 23 under Congu were still off 23 under the WHS and getting significantly more extra shots?
Its a lightweight article that offers no substance to support its opening line of "Early days of the World Handicap System show an advantage to those with more shots in the bank" and is not worth the paper it is written on.
Is that what you did before CONGU came in?Playing in friendly games with my mates we're just going to stick to our old tried and tested handicaps.
At my club (Slope 133 off whites, 130 off yellows), excluding golfers who had played fewer than 20 rounds, these were the following comparisons between CONGU handicaps and WHS COURSE Handicaps, after taking the average for the change of each player:
CONGU 0-9: WHS +0.3 WHS +0.3
CONGU 10-14: WHS +0.6 WHS +0.1
CONGU 15-19: WHS +1.7 WHS +0.6
CONGU 20-24: WHS +2.4 WHS +1.4
CONGU 25-30: WHS +2.8 WHS +1.3
CONGU 30+: WHS +3.4 WHS +2.0
So, compared to the last system, higher handicappers have gained more shots than lower handicappers. Perhaps the argument will be that the last system was unfair to higher handicappers?
When it comes to scrambles maybe we were different because we seemed to have a mix of winners - one group of low HC won one scramble , the rest over the last couple of years seemed to be very spread out in regards the winners including mixed teams - certainly didn’t seem to favour the lower handicaps and the results seemed tightly packed
Right now whether it’s the system or the fact it’s new a lot of the comp results being published by people would seem to favour the higher handicaps
Can only go by what we have seen at the club but the lower guys seemed to have lost shots of their handicap whilst they higher to mid seemed to have gained shots
It’s certainly something worth discussing and see how things are going to progress over the coming months
Actually, the old handicap systems all contained mechanisms that gave lower handicappers an advantage, e.g. by not accounting for Slope or having a "bonus of excellence" factor, etc. Even under WHS, low handicappers have the advantage but it's now far less significant.Yes, so was the last system, so no change in this respect, in my view.
The question should be, "Has WHS brought more of an advantage to higher handicappers?"
The one thing that I really struggle to get my head around is the long-term member of a club, who's handicap has been achieved solely by playing on his home course.
They've been playing 15 years, have a pre WHS handicap of 10
They p,ay to it on and off, eat it a few times a year and go up a bit but remain fairly steady, a shot or so either side of 10.
WHS comes in and his calculation gives him an Index of 10.7
His course has a Slope of 138
All of a sudden his course handicap is now 13....or 12 in competition
So, magically, he has gained 2 shots.
A handicap that was pretty stable at 10 is now 12 or 13...when playing on the same course
Why should he need extra shots around his own course when his previous handicap was maintained entirely by playing on that course....
Playing in friendly games with my mates we're just going to stick to our old tried and tested handicaps.
But I felt disadvantaged as a low handicapper by 0.1 reduction per shot below handicap, whereas higher handicappers could produce much larger to reductions in handicap.Actually, the old handicap systems all contained mechanisms that gave lower handicappers an advantage, e.g. by not accounting for Slope or having a "bonus of excellence" factor, etc. Even under WHS, low handicappers have the advantage but it's now far less significant.
Why are so many obsessed with winners of competitions? Play the best you can and reduce your handicap by as much as you can - is this not the main objective? Does the new system make this easier or harder for you to do than the old system? If you win a comp along the way, that is merely a side issue where luckily, you were not as bad as everyone else on that day.
There's probably some truth in the above about different experiences... mine have been that it always seemed that the lowest handicapped teams did the best. I always thought that scramble allowances pre WHS were fairly arbitrary...
Many people play competitions because they gave a competitive urge. Nothing wrong with that.Why are so many obsessed with winners of competitions? Play the best you can and reduce your handicap by as much as you can - is this not the main objective? Does the new system make this easier or harder for you to do than the old system? If you win a comp along the way, that is merely a side issue where luckily, you were not as bad as everyone else on that day.
Just before the WHS came in I was 14.4, but had worked hard on swing improvements
Next day I was 14.5
After 4 qualifying rounds in poor conditions and poor weather 15.2
Playing off whites yesterday in a friendly 17
I'm going to do some competition damage soon as the last round before the December lockdown I shot 74 gross
Yeh, sure. I have always had that competitive urge, go out there do the best you can on the day. I was not suggesting that anyone should do otherwise. But do the best you can over a period of time to reduce your handicap is the overriding objective (or should be). If I am allowed to assume that this is everyone's objective, does the new system make this easier (advantage) for higher handicappers to achieve? That is the question at start of the thread. There seemed to be too much of an emphasis on winning comps as the main objective. We are amateurs. Winning a comp means you were not as bad as everyone else on that day. Being the lowest or among the lowest handicap at your club - now that is real achievement, in my view. Enjoyment is key. This can be achieved whatever your ability or handicap, if you simply love playing golf, as I do.Many people play competitions because they gave a competitive urge. Nothing wrong with that.
If everyone wasn't bothered about winning comps, there probably wouldn't be any point in them. Just let everyone go out with their mates and submit cards afterwards