WHS doesn't work

[wjemather]

We'll just ignore the ELEVEN players (and their handicap committees) that nick spotted had put in scores when the course was not acceptable for scores.

Either Nick is exaggerating, or these are the only 11 times this has happened in the UK, and not happened at any other club.

But, on probability, I think there could be hundreds, if not thousands of these cases UK wide.

Club/committee failings are a different issue.

 

[Genu9]

Almost all issues that have been raised here are due to the failings of clubs and committees - those who do need to know more - not players, who don't.

Players not complying is a different issue.

Probably the difference between willing volunteers and pressed men fulfilling the role.

 

[D-S]

Almost all issues that have been raised here are due to the failings of clubs and committees - those who do need to know more - not players.

Players not complying is a different issue.

Interesting to hazard a guess at the % of failing clubs and/or committees, resulting in players routinely being able to, let’s say, “not fulfil their responsibilities’ correctly, in addition clubs allowing GP cards (not switching their tees off) when their course is not acceptable.
My starter for 10,
40% diligent, knowledgeable, organised, well resourced, right on top of things.
30% give it a good go but are hampered by a lack of resource and swamped by the job and/or lack of experience/knowledge - quite good in some aspects but deficient in some areas
30% not a clue, don’t care, the Wild West for WHS compliance.

 

[wjemather]

Interesting to hazard a guess at the % of failing clubs and/or committees, resulting in players routinely being able to, let’s say, “not fulfil their responsibilities’ correctly, in addition clubs allowing GP cards (not switching their tees off) when their course is not acceptable.
My starter for 10,
40% diligent, knowledgeable, organised, well resourced, right on top of things.
30% give it a good go but are hampered by a lack of resource and swamped by the job and/or lack of experience/knowledge - quite good in some aspects but deficient in some areas
30% not a clue, don’t care, the Wild West for WHS compliance.

I wouldn't want to put numbers on it, but being fair, it's much closer to 10% (or less) with no clue or don't care.

A significant percentage of clubs who "give it a good go" have committee members who, while willing, are simply ill-suited to the role and no amount of education will ever bring them up to speed.

 

[wjemather]

Probably the difference between willing volunteers and pressed men fulfilling the role.

The unions produced a job description that prospective volunteers should be assessed/assess themselves against.

 

[clubchamp98]

We have an "off season" that prevents scores being posted from any course in the region. It's not up to the clubs or players to understand, it's just turned off.

We have that it’s called winter.!

 

[D-S]

I wouldn't want to put numbers on it, but being fair, it's much closer to 10% (or less) with no clue or don't care.

Sadly I can certainly think of way more than 10% of clubs (that would only be 4) who haven’t a clue or don’t care in my county - some of which have very large memberships.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting to hazard a guess at the % of failing clubs and/or committees, resulting in players routinely being able to, let’s say, “not fulfil their responsibilities’ correctly, in addition clubs allowing GP cards (not switching their tees off) when their course is not acceptable.
My starter for 10,
40% diligent, knowledgeable, organised, well resourced, right on top of things.
30% give it a good go but are hampered by a lack of resource and swamped by the job and/or lack of experience/knowledge - quite good in some aspects but deficient in some areas
30% not a clue, don’t care, the Wild West for WHS compliance.

Well, taking things very very conservatively, and dealing with the very specific and isolated incident that Nick raised.

He identified 11 away players scores had been entered, but shouldn't. I assume they are not all from the same club, but lets say the 11 players come from 3 different clubs.

Let us say that Nick is at the only course in his entire County that has had this problem, and there are no others. However, let us say that there is 1 club in each County in the UK with a similar issue, of which I believe there are 92 in total.

So, UK wide, we now have 1012 players incorrectly submitting scores, and 276 Clubs entering these Scores, without a thorough investigation to find out that the course that the rounds were played on were closed.

Already, the above seems like a pretty high value. And, on this specific issue alone, I reckon the numbers could be significantly higher. And then when we roll out all the other hundreds of things clubs could get wrong when dealing with handicaps, I'm sure the numbers would be extremely high. Or at least, much much higher than some would like to admit.

 

[rulie]

We have that it’s called winter.!

That's what we call it also. Our inactive season (non-posting from clubs in the region) is Nov 15 to March 1.

 

[rulie]

I wouldn't want to put numbers on it, but being fair, it's much closer to 10% (or less) with no clue or don't care.

A significant percentage of clubs who "give it a good go" have committee members who, while willing, are simply ill-suited to the role and no amount of education will ever bring them up to speed.

And why is that the case and what's being done about it by the "authorities" (county, national), who have overall responsibility for the system's performance and efficiency?
You are very knowledgeable with the system, and a staunch supporter of it, but there is a real world out there! We had a system at work called MBWA, management by walking around. It worked.

 

[rulefan]

They use the MYEG app and/or follow the process defined by their handicap committee.

Does everyone use MYEG app? What if their club is tied to IG or V1 ?

 

[nickjdavis]

Does everyone use MYEG app? What if their club is tied to IG or V1 ?

I can only speak for my place but we have turned off the ability to pre-register and then submit general play scores via MasterScoreboard (HandicapMaster)....if anyone wants to submit a GP score they do it via the MyEG app which works totally independently of any clubs competition management software.

 

[woofers]

I can only speak for my place but we have turned off the ability to pre-register and then submit general play scores via MasterScoreboard (HandicapMaster)....if anyone wants to submit a GP score they do it via the MyEG app which works totally independently of any clubs competition management software.

Same here, we use IG, which I like, but switched off the ability to submit GP scores through it about 18 months ago.

 

[Deleted member 15717]

The easiest option, and I can’t wait to see the furore on this, is to not accept paper scorecards. Only accept cards submitted through MyEG, or home ISV.

the only challenge would be submission of cards outside of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland….but I would imagine these are such a small % of submissions, it wouldn’t be worth stressing about.

Will now sit back and wait for the ‘but old people’ and ‘not everyone has a smartphone’.

 

[wjemather]

Does everyone use MYEG app? What if their club is tied to IG or V1 ?

Anything other than the MyEG app would need to be part of the process defined by the handicap committee. As others have said, many clubs have disabled general play scores via their ISV.

 

[wjemather]

And why is that the case and what's being done about it by the "authorities" (county, national), who have overall responsibility for the system's performance and efficiency?
You are very knowledgeable with the system, and a staunch supporter of it, but there is a real world out there! We had a system at work called MBWA, management by walking around. It worked.

The authorities offer education and support, which includes group meetings, seminars and individual visits.

 

[LincolnShep]

Will now sit back and wait for the ‘but old people’ and ‘not everyone has a smartphone’.

OK, I'll bite. In your "app-only" world, what's your solution for people who don't have a smartphone?

 

[Deleted member 15717]

OK, I'll bite. In your "app-only" world, what's your solution for people who don't have a smartphone?

Get a smartphone.

They can be inexpensive. Pretty much every phone that is released is a smart phone, and has been for a number of years. Even the older members at my club have smart phones and know how to use them.

I’d probably say that if data could be provided, those aged 60 and over are not the ones submitting GP cards on a regular basis.

It’s the 21st century. The sooner we stop pandering and move into it, the better. One of the only ways is to cut the string. No more paper cards for GP submissions. I’d love to do it for competitions too, but that is a bit of a harder sell

 

[Alan Clifford]

The easiest option, and I can’t wait to see the furore on this, is to not accept paper scorecards. Only accept cards submitted through MyEG, or home ISV.

the only challenge would be submission of cards outside of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland….but I would imagine these are such a small % of submissions, it wouldn’t be worth stressing about.

Will now sit back and wait for the ‘but old people’ and ‘not everyone has a smartphone’.

HNA app allows you to submit foreign scores. So does their website. Not perfect as 9 hole foreign scores were a problem. I say "were" as I haven't yet tried to submit a foreign nine after the 2024 rule change. I suspect it will be impossible

Submitting cards to England from abroad involves a 'photo of the card and proof of ratiings. Not a problem for me but must be a pain at the receiving end.

Why is it all such a mess?

 

[clubchamp98]

OK, I'll bite. In your "app-only" world, what's your solution for people who don't have a smartphone?

Get the grandkids to show me.!

This is a very valid question as they have made a very simple marking of a card into a computer/ app nightmare for some people.