2 tee Stableford Comp under WHS

IanMcC

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Could I put a question to the more learned contributors on here, please? In the summer we play mixed singles stableford comps every Wednesday. Ladies off the Reds (73.8/128) and Gents off the Whites (72.2/129).

I have been reading Rule 6.2b in the Rules of Handicapping manual, and I don’t really understand what is meant by ‘play to handicap’.

From page 66:

Stableford formats

l For an 18-hole round: The number of points required for all players to

‘play to handicap’ must be calculated from each applicable set of tees.

o Those players requiring the highest number of points to ‘play to

handicap’ receive no additional strokes to the standard calculation of

their Playing Handicap.

o All players playing from a set of tees requiring a lower number of

points to ‘play to handicap’ will receive additional strokes to their

Playing Handicap equal to the difference between the number of

points they require to ‘play to handicap’ and the highest number of

points required by other players.

Rule 6

These additional strokes are added to the player’s Playing Handicap as

follows:

Playing

Handicap

=

(Course Handicap x

handicap allowance)

+

difference in number of points

required to 'play to handicap'

(highest to lowest)


I have set up a dummy comp on ClubV1, using ladies and gents handicaps over a broad range, and everyone seems to just get the 95% allowance. Should there be a further allowance for one of the sexes using these figures, that maybe is not incorporated into the ClubV1 software?
 

jim8flog

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We use IG and we can set up the comp for the additional strokes to given to ladies very easily.

You have to compare Course rating against Par for each group to work out how many points are playing to handicap in a stableford comp.

e.g For the if par is 72 and the Course rating is is in the range 71.5 to 72.4 then 36 points is playing to handicap

For the ladies if the par is 72 and the course rating is in the range 73.5 to 74.4 the 34 points is playing to handicap

So the ladies would receive 2 course adjustment shots added to their Playing Handicap.

If the ladies par is 73 they would receive 1 shot.
 

IanMcC

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Yes, I was afraid that this was the answer, but just wanted it confirmed. The Club software was fine under CONGU. It gave you the option of using Appendix O, or manually inputting your own adjustment. There is no such option now. The only factor in the Playing Handicap adjustment seems to be the Appendix C allowances in the RoH booklet.
For the record, our Men's white is par 70 and SSS was 72. Ladies red is par 74 and SSS 74. Under CONGU men received 2 shots for the comp playing whites. It was called Competition Handicap. The figures are now 72.2/Par 70 for white and 73.8/Par 74 for red, so under RoH 6.2b, there still should be a 2 shot allowance on top of the 95%.
Our winter comps are off the yellows. Here, the Men's Par is 72 but the SSS is 71, so the Ladies received 1 shot. Under WHS these figures are 71.3/Par 72, so they should still get 1 shot.
Running multiple test comps shows no extra allowance being given, apart from the 95%.
I will write to ClubV1 today pointing this out.
 
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jim8flog

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Yes, I was afraid that this was the answer, but just wanted it confirmed. The Club software was fine under CONGU. It gave you the option of using Appendix O, or manually inputting your own adjustment. There is no such option now. The only factor in the Playing Handicap adjustment seems to be the Appendix C allowances in the RoH booklet.
For the record, our Men's white is par 70 and SSS was 72. Ladies red is par 74 and SSS 74. Under CONGU men received 2 shots for the comp playing whites. It was called Competition Handicap. The figures are now 72.2/Par 70 for white and 73.8/Par 74 for red, so under RoH 6.2b, there still should be a 2 shot allowance on top of the 95%.
Our winter comps are off the yellows. Here, the Men's Par is 72 but the SSS is 71, so the Ladies received 1 shot. Under WHS these figures are 71.3/Par 72, so they should still get 1 shot.
Running multiple test comps shows no extra allowance being given, apart from the 95%.
I will write to ClubV1 today pointing this out.

For those figures of
73.8/74 Reds
72.2/70 Whites

It is the men who receive the 2 course adjustment shots.
 

IanMcC

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That is what I said, I believe. In the Winter, off of the yellows, the ladies get a shot because of the yellow course being different Course rating.
 

IanMcC

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I have spoken to an engineer at Club, after setting up a test comp. he agrees with me, but is taking it higher. Im awaiting a response now.
 

IanMcC

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Frustratingly, received this reply today from Club Systems

Hi Ian,



As far as I am aware this adjustment is now automatically applied.



Club Systems International

Support Team

Adam H

It has not been applied at all. There is still no Playing Handicap adjustment for a 2 tee comp, only the 95% adjustment.

Furthermore, if the comp is set up as a non qualifier (not acceptable conditions) then the competition does not recognise the 95% adjustment for Playing Handicap at all. Everyone gets their full Course Handicap as Playing Handicap. This too is incorrect I believe. If our Comp is not in acceptable conditions for handicap purposes, it is still a comp which generates a result locally, and Playing Handicap should be applied. (95%).

I replied to them, but I can see this never being fixed. We are starting these 2 tee comps again on Wednesday. I feel I have no option but to inform members that the HDID result will be wrong. It will also create a lot more work for me, working out the allowances manually. What a mess.
 

Old Skier

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Frustratingly, received this reply today from Club Systems

Hi Ian,



As far as I am aware this adjustment is now automatically applied.



Club Systems International

Support Team

Adam H

It has not been applied at all. There is still no Playing Handicap adjustment for a 2 tee comp, only the 95% adjustment.

Furthermore, if the comp is set up as a non qualifier (not acceptable conditions) then the competition does not recognise the 95% adjustment for Playing Handicap at all. Everyone gets their full Course Handicap as Playing Handicap. This too is incorrect I believe. If our Comp is not in acceptable conditions for handicap purposes, it is still a comp which generates a result locally, and Playing Handicap should be applied. (95%).

I replied to them, but I can see this never being fixed. We are starting these 2 tee comps again on Wednesday. I feel I have no option but to inform members that the HDID result will be wrong. It will also create a lot more work for me, working out the allowances manually. What a mess.
I haven’t had a look at this yet but I suspect what he means is the difference between ladies red and whatever other tees are in use for men is applied.
 

IanMcC

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I haven’t had a look at this yet but I suspect what he means is the difference between ladies red and whatever other tees are in use for men is applied.

Yes, that is the adjustment that is required, but it does not as yet take place. For our men's whites against the ladies reds, the men should receive an extra 2 shots on their playing handicap, to make up the differences between pars and Course Ratings. Can someone check if this adjustment takes place on another operating system by setting up a dummy comp? Obviously there would have to be a difference between the ladies course rating - par and the men's equivalent. We have ClubV1.
 
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