WHS doesn't work

[Voyager EMH]

Do you not just think. I’ll try to shoot the best score I can today?

I don’t see why this is such a difficult thing to accept.

All the talk of beating buffers, not putting in cards if it’s a bit windy/cold/hot/wet/humid, or from the wrong tee, or you’re not wearing the correct shade of beige chinos stinks of handicap manipulation.

That is hard-wired in. Always there - never to be removed.

I'm going to have some other thoughts as well. Can't have an inactive brain. I want these thoughts to be good/beneficial ones.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

You need to play more than 20 games a year.

But I agree. The averaging system is very simplistic despite its arithmetic complications. There really should be an aging factor in there reducing the infuence of old scores when people don't play much golf.

 

[jim8flog]

Nowadays I'm thinking about beating my 8th best score or equalling or bettering the disappearing score, if it is in the best 8.
This feels like a more achievable target than the old one of beating your handicap for a reduction.

I always have in mind what score is going to drop off . What I think about mainly any day is - 'is my score good enough to be in the prizes' (a rarity though these days).

 

[sunshine]

We hear 'play to handicap' all the time, but often the reference point is par (or 36 points) rather than course rating, so the assertion is faulty. Could you please advise the course rating and par?

I used the phrase "playing to handicap" as a generic term for scoring within an accepted margin, but I recognise it was rather careless use of the phrase for the contributors to this thread.

Let me clarify the point. The conditions were objectively much harder than normal conditions, regardless of the standard of the player. It was extremely unlikely that a player would be able to shoot a score equal to an average of their best 8 scores out of their last 20 rounds.

Course rating and par are completely irrelevent to the fact that the conditions were really tough compared to normal conditions, but I note this question is asked compulsively in regards to WHS and the behaviour and thinking patterns are quite rigid and repetitive. So I will let you know that CR=72 and par=70.

 

[wjemather]

I used the phrase "playing to handicap" as a generic term for scoring within an accepted margin, but I recognise it was rather careless use of the phrase for the contributors to this thread.

Let me clarify the point. The conditions were objectively much harder than normal conditions, regardless of the standard of the player. It was extremely unlikely that a player would be able to shoot a score equal to an average of their best 8 scores out of their last 20 rounds.

Course rating and par are completely irrelevent to the fact that the conditions were really tough compared to normal conditions, but I note this question is asked compulsively in regards to WHS and the behaviour and thinking patterns are quite rigid and repetitive. So I will let you know that CR=72 and par=70.

Perceptions of scoring conditions are subjective. They are also, like 'playing to handicap' scores, irrelevant to PCC. All that matters are the actual scores, and their relationship to expected scoring patterns.

In your case, 30/31 points (or nett 75/76, +5/+6) is about average scoring for most players. The expected range probably extends several points (or strokes) either side of that, so unless a significant proportion of the field are scoring worse than 27 points (nett 79, +9) PCC will more than likely be zero.

 

[chrisd]

You need to play more than 20 games a year.

But I agree. The averaging system is very simplistic despite its arithmetic complications. There really should be an aging factor in there reducing the infuence of old scores when people don't play much golf.

I played 23 counting rounds in competitions during 2021which would be quite normal for me. In 2022 I missed a fair number of comps due to prostate surgery and also an extended holiday but I also play a high number of matchplay rounds, both in the Club, but also in the vets section. I reckon I play at least 80 rounds a year but hardly ever general play for handicap purposes, other than the Club organised comps.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I played 23 counting rounds in competitions during 2021which would be quite normal for me. In 2022 I missed a fair number of comps due to prostate surgery and also an extended holiday but I also play a high number of matchplay rounds, both in the Club, but also in the vets section. I reckon I play at least 80 rounds a year but hardly ever general play for handicap purposes, other than the Club organised comps.

hardly ever general play for handicap purposes

Does that mean that you don't play general play rounds or that you don't submit those scores for handicap? If the latter, the solution to your complaint that your 20th score is old and irrelevant is, perhaps, staring you in the face.

Another point to note, and you could perhaps lobby England Golf about it as it would be another way to solve your problem, is that matchplay rounds are eligible for handicap purposes in other WHS jurisdictions.


To be honest, the problems of "WHS not working" stem from England Golf's half hearted and incomplete implementation.

 

[Backsticks]

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

In the absence of more up to date data, the next best alternative is chosen. Would you prefer your handicap suspended or cancelled until you have scores submitted during whatever more recent period you would think appropriate ?

 

[chrisd]

Does that mean that you don't play general play rounds or that you don't submit those scores for handicap? If the latter, the solution to your complaint that your 20th score is old and irrelevant is, perhaps, staring you in the face.

Another point to note, and you could perhaps lobby England Golf about it as it would be another way to solve your problem, is that matchplay rounds are eligible for handicap purposes in other WHS jurisdictions.


To be honest, the problems of "WHS not working" stem from England Golf's half hearted and incomplete implementation.

I dont play general play rounds, but I wouldn't do one and not submit it but I do play a high number of competitive rounds. I don't think that the system will change and I'm not about to lobby anyone at my age. Like a lot, I just don't like the best, mostly comp winning scores, dropping out when I'm not playing well as even at 70 I'm still keen to get my handicap down. Having said that I agree that the old system needed changing - I just dont like it when I win a comp and the next week my handicap goes up higher than the handicap was that won the comp

 

[chrisd]

In the absence of more up to date data, the next best alternative is chosen. Would you prefer your handicap suspended or cancelled until you have scores submitted during whatever more recent period you would think appropriate ?

As I've said during this discussion, I play a lot of Club matches mostly matchplay in the main Club and the vets section, and I play 20 to 30 scoring competition rounds in a normal season so I dont think what you've said to be appropriate for me

 

[sunshine]

I played 23 counting rounds in competitions during 2021which would be quite normal for me. In 2022 I missed a fair number of comps due to prostate surgery

I think you have to recognise that, for many of the posters on this thread, cancer is not an acceptable excuse for not having enough recent scores on your handicap record. You might as well say the dog ate your scorecard.

 

[chrisd]

I think you have to recognise that, for many of the posters on this thread, cancer is not an acceptable excuse for not having enough recent scores on your handicap record. You might as well say the dog ate your scorecard.

I would have used that one but I've never had a dog

 

[Swango1980]

Which I was free to do in answering the subsequent posts after my initial post where I made no comments, but simply posted the competition result and a fact about the winner's handicap adjustment.

I contest that my initial post was poorly worded. I made no claims about the significance of the competition result or my intention of indicating any such significance in that post.
My post was factual and I intended it to be nothing more than that at the time.

In answering queries from others, I stated my reason for posting that result was that it gave an illustration of low handicappers outperforming higher handicappers in a net competition.
We seem to get plenty of posts about high handicappers winning comps - so I thought my post would show an alternative - which I believe it does.

Please feel free to continue criticising all the wording of all my posts. I have no problem with explaining myself and my thoughts.

I was simply explaining why you got the responses you did. People will respond to the point thet think you are making. If multiple people respond to that point, clearly there must have been a misunderstanding in the words you used.

 

[Swango1980]

I've not posted hardly at all here but I've got to say that there are times that WHS really pee's me off. Last week I won our club Stableford with 39 points and got only a .8 cut to 15.5 albeit 39 points was really good in the conditions on the day. Yesterday was an awful day, the course was wet and it rained heavily for a good part of the back 9. Also I was playing poorly and none of my group were making any putts, even a 7 hc who's known as a good putter only made one decent putt. I shot a really high score , and I believe the course was closed before all the later players finished.

The problem for me is that the score dropping out was a competition winning score from a year ago now being replaced by a 9 shot higher from a more recent game. Back before WHS we'd have probably walked in when the heavy rain came and been content to have the .1 addition but there was not even a PCC to help yesterday!

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

But, even if you shot your 9th best score you'd have got the same increase. If your score was very bad, would a PCC of 3 get that score in your top 8?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

We hear 'play to handicap' all the time, but often the reference point is par (or 36 points) rather than course rating, so the assertion is faulty. Could you please advise the course rating and par?

32 points tells us nothing without knowing the Course Rating and Par.

Well that might be the case for how PCC is calculated, but I’ve got an idea I wanted to test out. And as it happens a subsequent post you made in respect of 30/31 pts and spread address my idea.

 

[Voyager EMH]

I was simply explaining why you got the responses you did. People will respond to the point thet think you are making. If multiple people respond to that point, clearly there must have been a misunderstanding in the words you used.

Point taken.
I will endeavour to introduce any such post again with something like,
"I post the following for information purposes only and I am not attempting to give any conclusions of my own from it at this time."
It was my mistake not to have done this.
This led others to assume that I was attempting to make some kind of point, they gave their best guess as to what that point was, then criticised that point as if I had actually made such a statement.
All my fault for not including the correct introduction.
Thank you for setting me straight.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A very good point.

I find that I am no longer thinking about playing to (or old buffer zone) handicap in the way I used to.
I'm becoming inclined to think that there is no such thing as "playing to handicap" anymore.

Achieving a score differential that is equal to or very close to HI. Maybe this is the new equivalent? But it would often bring about a reduction to handicap.

Its hard to completely lose the ingrained perceptions of the old system.
"Playing to handicap" is maybe one of those old perceptions that we need to lose or replace with a completely new perception.

Nowadays I'm thinking about beating my 8th best score or equalling or bettering the disappearing score, if it is in the best 8.
This feels like a more achievable target than the old one of beating your handicap for a reduction.

This is me. I know that my next five rounds are not counters. I know I have a 9.4 in my eight. I know that (without a PCC adjustment) an 82 gave me the 9.4. Therefore I know that to improve my HI I need to shoot better than 82. An 82 is ‘over handicap’ and less than 36 stableford points - neither of these things particularly bother me when I am looking to improve my handicap. I go out and shoot the best gross score that I can.

I largely dismiss the idea of ‘winning’ the comp (especially stableford ones), as it’s statistically unlikely that I will, but if I focus on trying to shoot my best gross to reduce my HI as my objective, then coming in the frame is always a possibility.

 

[chrisd]

But, even if you shot your 9th best score you'd have got the same increase. If your score was very bad, would a PCC of 3 get that score in your top 8?

I'm not 100% on the systems workings, but the score coming out that day is the main reason for the rise in handicap. Had it been the same as the one becoming a counting score I could have ,at least, played more than one (crap) round before going up

 

[Slab]

I'm not 100% on the systems workings, but the score coming out that day is the main reason for the rise in handicap. Had it been the same as the one becoming a counting score I could have ,at least, played more than one (crap) round before going up

Not sure I’m getting this
You said you played poorly (in wet weather) and that score kicked out your 20th oldest which was good (& happened to be 1yr old) The score for last year was always going to cease to be a counting score at some point & raise your index unless you kept matching/beating it

I had similar with a PB score pushed off by a score in ‘buffer’.. you want to talk about frustration, at least you know you played poorly

Incidentally have you looked at your 'new' 20th oldest score to give you a heads up what'll happen after your next round (it might just be be your least helpful one getting the boot)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Not sure I’m getting this
You said you played poorly (in wet weather) and that score kicked out your 20th oldest which was good (& happened to be 1yr old) The score for last year was always going to cease to be a counting score at some point & raise your index unless you kept matching/beating it

I had similar with a PB score pushed off by a score in ‘buffer’.. you want to talk about frustration, at least you know you played poorly

Incidentally have you looked at your 'new' 20th oldest score to give you a heads up what'll happen after your next round (it might just be be your least helpful one getting the boot)

BIB…or the one getting the boot might not have been a 1 of 8 ‘counter’ so losing it doesn’t matter one iota

…other than perhaps if it was a useful backup to one of your eight.