WHS doesn't work

[rulefan]

It’s a flaw in the system . Imo.
WHS is supposed to show current form.
but will only do that if regular cards are submitted.
a card from 12 months ago hardly shows current form as you say.

If WHS is supposed to show current form then a 12 month old score is hardly current and is irrelevant.

 

[IanM]

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

I am not sure there's a remedy for this. Some players will have scores in their "20" older than that, some enter that number in a month or so.

It's a feature of the calculation we'll have to live with.

Bit like you can have a shocking round and still get cut, depending on what drops off the end of the list.

 

[clubchamp98]

If WHS is supposed to show current form then a 12 month old score is hardly current and is irrelevant.

Chrisd has just posted that a score from a year ago has affected his HC.
How is that irrelevant ?

 

[Voyager EMH]

Then your opening lines of post 1928 were poorly worded, as you specifically told us the point you were making was that low handicappers had done well, the opposite of what WHS moaners go on about.

Even though that point had not been made well in your opening post, you confirmed your point in post 1928.

Which I was free to do in answering the subsequent posts after my initial post where I made no comments, but simply posted the competition result and a fact about the winner's handicap adjustment.

I contest that my initial post was poorly worded. I made no claims about the significance of the competition result or my intention of indicating any such significance in that post.
My post was factual and I intended it to be nothing more than that at the time.

In answering queries from others, I stated my reason for posting that result was that it gave an illustration of low handicappers outperforming higher handicappers in a net competition.
We seem to get plenty of posts about high handicappers winning comps - so I thought my post would show an alternative - which I believe it does.

Please feel free to continue criticising all the wording of all my posts. I have no problem with explaining myself and my thoughts.

 

[jim8flog]

I've not posted hardly at all here but I've got to say that there are times that WHS really pee's me off. Last week I won our club Stableford with 39 points and got only a .8 cut to 15.5 albeit 39 points was really good in the conditions on the day. Yesterday was an awful day, the course was wet and it rained heavily for a good part of the back 9. Also I was playing poorly and none of my group were making any putts, even a 7 hc who's known as a good putter only made one decent putt. I shot a really high score , and I believe the course was closed before all the later players finished.

The problem for me is that the score dropping out was a competition winning score from a year ago now being replaced by a 9 shot higher from a more recent game. Back before WHS we'd have probably walked in when the heavy rain came and been content to have the .1 addition but there was not even a PCC to help yesterday!

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

simple really
I would say your not putting in enough qualifying scores to accurately affect you current ability if as you say a score from a year ago is affecting your H.I. now and it is concerning you.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Which I was free to do in answering the subsequent posts after my initial post where I made no comments, but simply posted the competition result and a fact about the winner's handicap adjustment.

I contest that my initial post was poorly worded. I made no claims about the significance of the competition result or my intention of indicating any such significance in that post.
My post was factual and I intended it to be nothing more than that at the time.

In answering queries from others, I stated my reason for posting that result was that it gave an illustration of low handicappers outperforming higher handicappers in a net competition.
We seem to get plenty of posts about high handicappers winning comps - so I thought my post would show an alternative - which I believe it does.

Please feel free to continue criticising all the wording of all my posts. I have no problem with explaining myself and my thoughts.

Low and sf handicappers do pretty well in handicap comps at my place…that some might complain they don’t WIN that many handicap comps is something that can equally be said for every member or relatively small sub-set of members.

Indeed our regular Saturday stableford comp is rarely won with many more than 40pts with lower guys often getting in the mix. And so last Saturday…with conditions fine.

Won by 13 hcapper with 40pts,
9 hcapper in 2nd with 38pts
6 hcapper in 7th with 37pts
+1 hcapper in 8th with 36pts
4 hcapper in 11th with 34pts

I consider that a reasonable result for the lower guys and so get what @Voyager EMH is saying.

And the highest 20+ hcapper was in 18th place - immediately preceded by three SF players, myself included.

 

[sunshine]

Played last week back off the white tees, no roll on the fairways so playing very long. Strong biting north east wind, very tough conditions, nobody playing to handicap. PCC = 0

 

[chrisd]

simple really
I would say your not putting in enough qualifying scores to accurately affect you current ability if as you say a score from a year ago is affecting your H.I. now and it is concerning you.

Not as easy as it sounds, when the normal season of comps finish (which I play in most) the club have winter matchplay knockouts in the normal club and the vets sections, we also have a lot of winter team type events so 3 out of 4 weeks are often taken up with these games. So it leaves playing qualifying comps to odd weeks when we'd hope the weather would be conducive to playing with a card in hand and hopefully not on temp greens. Add to that I was part of the Club vets league team which entailed plenty of mid week away fixtures

I did also have a fair few games less last year due to prostate cancer surgery and a 5 week holiday during 2022 so it isn't me trying to avoid putting qualifying cards in

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Played last week back off the white tees, no roll on the fairways so playing very long. Strong biting north east wind, very tough conditions, nobody playing to handicap. PCC = 0

Out of interest, are you able to find out or work out the % of the field scoring 32pts or better, and what is the median score I.e. that score which 50% got or bettered. I suggest that if 50% or more got 32pts or better then the PCC will be 0. I have little evidence for my conjecture (I wouldn’t call it a theory as I have insufficient evidence to make it one )

 

[wjemather]

Played last week back off the white tees, no roll on the fairways so playing very long. Strong biting north east wind, very tough conditions, nobody playing to handicap. PCC = 0

We hear 'play to handicap' all the time, but often the reference point is par (or 36 points) rather than course rating, so the assertion is faulty. Could you please advise the course rating and par?

Out of interest, are you able to find out or work out the % of the field scoring 32pts or better, and what is the median score I.e. that score which 50% got or bettered. I suggest that if 50% or more got 32pts or better then the PCC will be 0. I have little evidence for my conjecture (I wouldn’t call it a theory as I have insufficient evidence to make it one )

32 points tells us nothing without knowing the Course Rating and Par.

 

[rulefan]

Chrisd has just posted that a score from a year ago has affected his HC.
How is that irrelevant ?

The relevance is in how it demonstrates his current ability.

 

[doublebogey7]

I've not posted hardly at all here but I've got to say that there are times that WHS really pee's me off. Last week I won our club Stableford with 39 points and got only a .8 cut to 15.5 albeit 39 points was really good in the conditions on the day. Yesterday was an awful day, the course was wet and it rained heavily for a good part of the back 9. Also I was playing poorly and none of my group were making any putts, even a 7 hc who's known as a good putter only made one decent putt. I shot a really high score , and I believe the course was closed before all the later players finished.

The problem for me is that the score dropping out was a competition winning score from a year ago now being replaced by a 9 shot higher from a more recent game. Back before WHS we'd have probably walked in when the heavy rain came and been content to have the .1 addition but there was not even a PCC to help yesterday!

I struggle to see how a score 12 months old should be affecting my handicap today.

Under the old system a score from 100 years effected your handicap today, though be it in only a very small way.

 

[chrisd]

I'm currently lamenting the loss of "reductions only"... Played a comp at the weekend in VERY high winds, practically impossible conditions. PCC went to +3 so that was something but still left me with a differential well above my usual range.

Problem with that is it's left me pondering whether I should just withdraw from comps in future if the conditions make it so difficult to score. It looks like plenty chose that option at the weekend. Hate that but find it completely understandable.

For you Kaz, probably the right thing to do is to scratch. Ours yesterday got rained off before the end, but many of us, who braved it for the full 18 holes, just got a big score on our record and pretty wet without the luxury of any PCC help. With you as a low handicapper I personally feel that you have a right to protect it - within reason.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Using a football analogy as everyone thinks they understand how football works, Liverpool beat Man Utd a few weeks ago 7-1, does this make Liverpool the best team in league and United the worst team, of course it doesn't, you are where you are because of 30 odd games, Same with golf, you are not automatically as good or bad as your last score, you are where you are after your performances over the last 20 games

 

[IanM]

Using a football analogy as everyone thinks they understand how football works, Liverpool beat Man Utd a few weeks ago 7-1, does this make Liverpool the best team in league and United the worst team, of course it doesn't, you are where you are because of 30 odd games, Same with golf, you are not automatically as good or bad as your last score, you are where you are after your performances over the last 20 games

Well, the best 8 of those 20 games

The old and new handicap system are fundamentally different metrics. The issues arise from them being used to do the same job, so people (not unreasonably, but maybe unhelpfully) make comparisons. It'll be sometime before these comparisons stop. (blah blah all my previous waffle about poor management of change etc )

 

[Voyager EMH]

We hear 'play to handicap' all the time, but often the reference point is par (or 36 points) rather than course rating, so the assertion is faulty. Could you please advise the course rating and par?

32 points tells us nothing without knowing the Course Rating and Par.

A very good point.

I find that I am no longer thinking about playing to (or old buffer zone) handicap in the way I used to.
I'm becoming inclined to think that there is no such thing as "playing to handicap" anymore.

Achieving a score differential that is equal to or very close to HI. Maybe this is the new equivalent? But it would often bring about a reduction to handicap.

Its hard to completely lose the ingrained perceptions of the old system.
"Playing to handicap" is maybe one of those old perceptions that we need to lose or replace with a completely new perception.

Nowadays I'm thinking about beating my 8th best score or equalling or bettering the disappearing score, if it is in the best 8.
This feels like a more achievable target than the old one of beating your handicap for a reduction.

 

[rulefan]

Nowadays I'm thinking about beating my 8th best score or equalling or bettering the disappearing score, if it is in the best 8.

That is the best target.

 

[rosecott]

That is the best target.

And that now seems to be the way of thinking for a significantly increasing number of my members.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Nowadays I'm thinking about beating my 8th best score or equalling or bettering the disappearing score, if it is in the best 8.
This feels like a more achievable target than the old one of beating your handicap for a reduction.

Do you not just think. I’ll try to shoot the best score I can today?

I don’t see why this is such a difficult thing to accept.

All the talk of beating buffers, not putting in cards if it’s a bit windy/cold/hot/wet/humid, or from the wrong tee, or you’re not wearing the correct shade of beige chinos stinks of handicap manipulation.

 

[RichA]

Do you not just think. I’ll try to shoot the best score I can today?

I don’t see why this is such a difficult thing to accept.

All the talk of beating buffers, not putting in cards if it’s a bit windy/cold/hot/wet/humid, or from the wrong tee, or you’re not wearing the correct shade of beige chinos stinks of handicap manipulation.

The concept of a performance target isn't exactly new or controversial and what's being described isn't handicap manipulation at all.
In all sports, some players and teams are aggressive and go all out attack for the best score possible. Others are more conservative, aim to set an achievable target and grind out a victory.
It's just tactics. Other peoples' tactics differ to yours. Neither is right or wrong, honest or dishonest.