WHS doesn't work

[Voyager EMH]

Hmmm. Interesting.

A course that is par 72 and CR 76.2 and SR 148 means,

shoot a 16-over par 88 and you have played to (differential) a 9.0 handicap index.

If I were to shoot an 11-over 83, I would see my HI go from 4.5 to 4.4.

A 5-over 77 at Augusta is a better score than level par at my home course off the yellows. Makes them fairly equal difficulty in my view.

 

[MiurasFan]

That interesting. Augusta National is not listed in the USGA database - are these estimates?

From here: https://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/ga/augusta/augusta-national-golf-club-2392#:~:text=The 18-hole "Augusta National,of 135 on Bermuda grass. I suspect the Masters course has been rated by someone experienced in rating courses, as it doesn't have an official one. I'd figure the Members one is from the card though, as the members are generally not typical golfers - most will be getting on a bit! I did know someone, the ex-CEO of a top IT company, who had played it. He, off 6, said that it was set up very easy, 'to cater for the geriatric members'!

 

[D-S]

From here: https://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/ga/augusta/augusta-national-golf-club-2392#:~:text=The 18-hole "Augusta National,of 135 on Bermuda grass.

I don’t see members tees CR/Slope quoted in this link or the Masters tees but perhaps I haven’t looked deeply enough.
As it doesn’t appear on the USGA data base I have to assume that this is an estimate. Interesting that it only gets a 3 out 5 rating - just because one review said “to (sic) expensive”, kind of sums up how useful golf review sites are.

 

[nickjdavis]

From here: https://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/ga/augusta/augusta-national-golf-club-2392#:~:text=The 18-hole "Augusta National,of 135 on Bermuda grass. I suspect the Masters course has been rated by someone experienced in rating courses, as it doesn't have an official one. I'd figure the Members one is from the card though, as the members are generally not typical golfers - most will be getting on a bit! I did know someone, the ex-CEO of a top IT company, who had played it. He, off 6, said that it was set up very easy, 'to cater for the geriatric members'!

An alternative source estimates 78.1 and 137 (claims that Augusta has never been officially rated, which fits in with it not appearing in the USGA database).

Augusta National Scorecard: Hole Names, Yards, Pars and More (golfcompendium.com)

 

[nickjdavis]

I don’t see members tees CR/Slope quoted in this link or the Masters tees but perhaps I haven’t looked deeply enough.
As it doesn’t appear on the USGA data base I have to assume that this is an estimate. Interesting that it only gets a 3 out 5 rating - just because one review said “to (sic) expensive”, kind of sums up how useful golf review sites are.

Its on the "image" of the scorecard towards the left.

 

[doublebogey7]

From here: https://www.golflink.com/golf-cours...ole "Augusta National,of 135 on Bermuda grass.

Love the review score of just over 3 stars, tough school in them parts

 

[tobybarker]

Bethpage Black.

I think you probably understood my point without being pendantic over it.....

 

[Crazyface]

Are you sure that is the only thing?

Obviously I've never played a Major course. However, as I understand it, Augusta is very difficult, largely due to the design of the greens.

US Open courses are very difficult as they usually make the rough extremely penal.

There are some short courses that can play very tough. I think Pebble Beach is relatively short for a course professionals play on, but can be made to play very tough? So, I don't think it is true to say that length is the only factor.

Well I've only played one and knocked it round in one over my HC, if I'd could have putt like I can now I'd have bettered it easily. But off the tees the pro use, no chance. It would have been a right slog, and I can hit a ball.

 

[wjemather]

I think you probably understood my point without being pendantic over it.....

I think you're missing the point - you shouldn't have supported your opinion with a false statement reliant on bogus stereotypes of what municipal courses are like.

 

[wjemather]

Indeed. I'm sure there are always exceptions to the rule (in relation to local courses).

In this case, there is no rule. There are countless municipals that are immeasurably better (and more difficult) than most expensive private courses, and many major championship venues.

 

[Swango1980]

I think you're missing the point - you shouldn't have supported your opinion with a false statement reliant on bogus stereotypes of what municipal courses are like.

Still being pedantic then

 

[MiurasFan]

I think you probably understood my point without being pendantic over it.....

It's 'pedantic'!

It's a 'muni' that has held The Open more times than any other course! And plenty of muni's have held! And there's plenty of PubLincs (equivalent of Munis in US) that have held US Opens, other Majors or have been Ryder Cup venues and or up there with the best courses! Pinehurst #2, Whistling Straits, Pebble Beach, as well as Bethpage Black! Maybe not 'regular' local munis, but.... And the course you'd get to play Augusta must be considerably shorter - presumably to cater for the needs of members who'd likely be fairly elderly. The comment about pin placements is also significant. Masters pin positions would be far too difficult for member, who'd likely be 5+ putting every green!

 

[Captain_Black.]

nowhere else to really post this....but this made me chuckle. A thread.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626009535126159361

After reading all the replies to this thread & being somewhat perplexed by some that are in denial about WHS & the issues that it is causing, I was amused to read that tweet, although written very much "tongue in cheek" it contains some real truth bombs.
I especially like the suggestion of having a handicap that you can regularly play 6 or 7 shots below.
Maybe if you can't beat then, then joining them might be the answer?
Except of course most peoples sense of fair play & honesty would prevent that.
Wouldn't it?

 

[D-S]

After reading all the replies to this thread & being somewhat perplexed by some that are in denial about WHS & the issues that it is causing, I was amused to read that tweet, although written very much "tongue in cheek" it contains some real truth bombs.
I especially like the suggestion of having a handicap that you can regularly play 6 or 7 shots below.
Maybe if you can't beat then, then joining them might be the answer?
Except of course most peoples sense of fair play & honesty would prevent that.
Wouldn't it?

Club Pro Guy is brilliant on Twitter, his instructional videos are great - I love the 747 approach.

 

[D-S]

It's a 'muni' that has held The Open more times than any other course! And plenty of muni's have held! And there's plenty of PubLincs (equivalent of Munis in US) that have held US Opens, other Majors or have been Ryder Cup venues and or up there with the best courses! Pinehurst #2, Whistling Straits, Pebble Beach, as well as Bethpage Black! Maybe not 'regular' local munis, but.... And the course you'd get to play Augusta must be considerably shorter - presumably to cater for the needs of members who'd likely be fairly elderly. The comment about pin placements is also significant. Masters pin positions would be far too difficult for member, who'd likely be 5+ putting every green!

Since when has Pinehurst No.2 been a muni? - I’ve played it a few times and I can assure you it’s is a long way from ever being anything close to a muni.
I played Torres Pines and that certainly is and has that feel too, however I would say it is only tough due to set up not design. We played it after the Farmers event and the rough was extremely penal - great views, bland course.
Whistling Straits, having just looked it up is a luxury resort course, hardly a muni.

 

[MiurasFan]

Since when has Pinehurst No.2 been a muni? - I’ve played it a few times and I can assure you it’s is a long way from ever being anything close to a muni.
I played Torres Pines and that certainly is and has that feel too, however I would say it is only tough due to set up not design. We played it after the Farmers event and the rough was extremely penal - great views, bland course.
Whistling Straits, having just looked it up is a luxury resort course, hardly a muni.

It was on the list of top publincs courses that I checked when replying. Of course, I can't find that list now, but it didn't surprise me - and here's the evidence! https://www.pinehurst.com/offers/! Like so much of stuff that gets debated (or argued about) on here, it's a case of 'what's the definition of...... Publincs course satisfy my definition, which is 'you don't have to be a member or guest, nor actually a member of a course' to play them!

 

[D-S]

It was on the list of top publincs courses that I checked when replying. Of course, I can't find that list now, but it didn't surprise me - and here's the evidence! https://www.pinehurst.com/offers/

Pinehurst No 2 is the second course of 9 at Pinehurst Country Club - not remotely associated with anything close to a ‘muni’.
Having played 7 of the 9 at the Country Club, I think No 4 is much prettier and a good test, No 8 is my favourite- a stunning course - although to follow in Payne Stewart’s footsteps down the last with his statue by the 18th is really something..
If you want to experience great golf in the US, Pinehurst is a must (although I love the Robert Trent Jones Trail in Alabama, off the UK radar but a real treat).

 

[D-S]

It was on the list of top publincs courses that I checked when replying. Of course, I can't find that list now, but it didn't surprise me - and here's the evidence! https://www.pinehurst.com/offers/! Like so much of stuff that gets debated (or argued about) on here, it's a case of 'what's the definition of...... Publincs course satisfy my definition, which is 'you don't have to be a member or guest, nor actually a member of a course' to play them!

I think you might be mistaking ‘muni’ for places that the public can play (if they pay the requisite green fee) by which logic Muirfield and Royal St.George’s are also munis (I don’t think they think of themselves as that), as are the rest of the Open rota.
You must remember that almost a third of courses in the US are private and cannot be accessed by the public only via invitation by a member - we are really fortunate that this is only a rare occurrence in the UK.

 

[MiurasFan]

I think you might be mistaking ‘muni’ for places that the public can play (if they pay the requisite green fee) by which logic Muirfield and Royal St.George’s are also munis (I don’t think they think of themselves as that), as are the rest of the Open rota.
You must remember that almost a third of courses in the US are private and cannot be accessed by the public only via invitation by a member - we are really fortunate that this is only a rare occurrence in the UK.

Note the last 10 words of the post you quoted! Miurfield requires pure visitors to belong to a club - or at least it did - and I seem to remember had, and probably still has, a handicap cap! Overseas visitors (Yanks through Tours) might be excused. And here's a link that includes#2, thogh not the one I used originlly https://www.golfmonthly.com/courses/10-of-the-best-public-golf-courses-in-the-us Undurprisingly, Augusta National is not on that list!

 

[D-S]

Note the last 10 words of the post you quoted! Miurfield requires pure visitors to belong to a club - or at lest it did! Overseas visitors (Yanks through Tours) might be excused.

All of which is a very long way from the ‘local muni’ description originally referred to in the thread.