WHS doesn't work

[MiurasFan]

All of which is a very long way from the ‘local muni’ description originally referred to in the thread.

See post 1196 - an earlier reply to you! I'm bored with this now, so off to watch Tiger!

 

[doublebogey7]

It's 'pedantic'!

It's a 'muni' that has held The Open more times than any other course! And plenty of muni's have held! And there's plenty of PubLincs (equivalent of Munis in US) that have held US Opens, other Majors or have been Ryder Cup venues and or up there with the best courses! Pinehurst #2, Whistling Straits, Pebble Beach, as well as Bethpage Black! Maybe not 'regular' local munis, but.... And the course you'd get to play Augusta must be considerably shorter - presumably to cater for the needs of members who'd likely be fairly elderly. The comment about pin placements is also significant. Masters pin positions would be far too difficult for member, who'd likely be 5+ putting every green!

Sorry but publincs courses as defined in the US, are not the same as Munis, which stands for Municipal meaning they are run and owned by the local authority. Publincs are courses that basically anyone can play for a fee, there is a big difference. Under those definitions, St Andrews would not be a Publincs, but it is is certainly a Muni. St Georges would be a Publincs in practise, but is most definatly not a Muni.

 

[MiurasFan]

Sorry but publincs courses as defined in the US, are not the same as Munis, which stands for Municipal meaning they are run and owned by the local authority. Publincs are courses that basically anyone can play for a fee, there is a big difference. Under those definitions, St Andrews would not be a Publincs, but it is is certainly a Muni. St Georges would be a Publincs in practise, but is most definatly not a Muni.

Zzzzzz!

 

[94tegsi]

Well I've only played one and knocked it round in one over my HC, if I'd could have putt like I can now I'd have bettered it easily. But off the tees the pro use, no chance. It would have been a right slog, and I can hit a ball.

And you think that when you played it, you played it in the same setup as they do at a major (other than length obviously)?

 

[tobybarker]

All of which is a very long way from the ‘local muni’ description originally referred to in the thread.

I think most normal people knew what I meant when I referred to the local muni......

 

[Swango1980]

I think most normal people knew what I meant when I referred to the local muni......

There are probably very few regular posters on Golf Monthly forums that could be described as "normal".

 

[Bdill93]

After reading all the replies to this thread & being somewhat perplexed by some that are in denial about WHS & the issues that it is causing, I was amused to read that tweet, although written very much "tongue in cheek" it contains some real truth bombs.
I especially like the suggestion of having a handicap that you can regularly play 6 or 7 shots below.
Maybe if you can't beat then, then joining them might be the answer?
Except of course most peoples sense of fair play & honesty would prevent that.
Wouldn't it?

I reckon someone should try it...

But to do that they have to manage their handicap upwards - unnoticed!

 

[D-S]

I reckon someone should try it...

But to do that they have to manage their handicap upwards - unnoticed!

I certainly know which clubs I would pick to be a member of if I was inclined to do this - the cost would be pretty low as they tend to be at the lower end of subscription rates.

 

[Oddsocks]

Well it seems our club is being pretty pro active around the lack of faith in the WHS.

As of April 1st there will be three divisions in all comps (1-9, 10-19 & 20+) further more they have dragged back the stats for the last 4 months roll ups and comps and broken down all of the numbers.

* stableford and medal comp wins in both devisions, 2’s pot and the top 10.

* front 9, back 9, top 3, top 10, nearest pins, 2’s pot in the swindle.

The numbers show weekly that cat1 / SF golfers bare generally cleaning up in anything where accuracy is involved and making a lot of money from it, the issues is they’re only 5-8% on the entries. 10-18’s are generally taking most medals but this is off the front tees so they no longer have the length disadvantage, 18+ seem to be ripping up the rolls up through a mid JF shorter course and bigger handicap allowances.

The spread sheet shows how deep they dug into the numbers and it was published on the changing room notice board.

Faith restored.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Index was 22.9, which on our course rating gives me 27 shots. My current counting scores are around 98-100, par is 71

Yesterday threw in a 94,for 40 points, which you would have thought would have got a cut of some sort, well it did , down to 22.3.

But that doesn’t affect the number of shots I get.

Under the old system I would have had a 1.2 shot cut.

So it seems under the WHS you are quicker to go up, but not as quick to come down when you post an improved score.

I’ll just have to do it again next week then

 

[IanM]

And therein lies the issue. The old and new systems are different, say different things and behave differently.
You have to manage a culture change like a culture change or you get what we now have

 

[Backsticks]

So it seems under the WHS you are quicker to go up, but not as quick to come down when you post an improved score.

That is not the correct conclusion. It depends on the profile of your 20 cards, and the next one being discarded.
For example, for your 40pts, you might have actually increased hc, if your 20th score being discarded was a 41pts score.

Or you could lose half a shot next round even if you only have 35pts, if your 8th best score is 31pts.

You need to think of it as a modified moving average, not as a response to the single latest score.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Index was 22.9, which on our course rating gives me 27 shots. My current counting scores are around 98-100, par is 71

Yesterday threw in a 94,for 40 points, which you would have thought would have got a cut of some sort, well it did , down to 22.3.

But that doesn’t affect the number of shots I get.

Under the old system I would have had a 1.2 shot cut.

So it seems under the WHS you are quicker to go up, but not as quick to come down when you post an improved score.

I’ll just have to do it again next week then

Under the old system, the 12 non-counting scores in your last 20 could have put your handicap up by 1.2 shots, but now those scores have no bearing. Swings and roundabouts.

If you came down from 22.9 to 22.3 then I estimate that you beat your 8th best score by around 6 shots - so very well done indeed!

 

[PhilTheFragger]

That is not the correct conclusion. It depends on the profile of your 20 cards, and the next one being discarded.
For example, for your 40pts, you might have actually increased hc, if your 20th score being discarded was a 41pts score.

Or you could lose half a shot next round even if you only have 35pts, if your 8th best score is 31pts.

You need to think of it as a modified moving average, not as a response to the single latest score.

Yeah I’m aware of the averaging process, and the maths. the comment was more about the fact that I put in a decent score and my handicap shots didn’t change, whereas under the old system, you would have seen an immediate reward.

Took a bit of the gloss of it. Ellesborough is not an easy course, the yellows (winter tees are 135) so I’m just highlighting the lack of immediate reward for putting in a good score

 

[Slab]

Index was 22.9, which on our course rating gives me 27 shots. My current counting scores are around 98-100, par is 71

Yesterday threw in a 94,for 40 points, which you would have thought would have got a cut of some sort, well it did , down to 22.3.

But that doesn’t affect the number of shots I get.

Under the old system I would have had a 1.2 shot cut.

So it seems under the WHS you are quicker to go up, but not as quick to come down when you post an improved score.

I’ll just have to do it again next week then

I'm sure there's a logical explanation but why is your index so far removed from your course handicap? Was your index achieved and based on a different (easier) course?

 

[Voyager EMH]

I'm sure there's a logical explanation but why is your index so far removed from your course handicap? Was your index achieved and based on a different (easier) course?

His course has fairly high slope ratings of Y135 and W138.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

I'm sure there's a logical explanation but why is your index so far removed from your course handicap? Was your index achieved and based on a different (easier) course?

No over the last year I have put in 29 cards all on the same course, many off the whites which is rated 138.

Best score was 90 in April last year (to win a board medal ) but that’s long dropped off.
I’m sure the maths is correct

 

[Slab]

His course has fairly high slope ratings of Y135 and W138.

Thats why my brain isnt handling, if he's playing that course for his previous/existing cards then he's achieving scores based on the self same slope etc, so why would index be 5 shots lower.

 

[Backsticks]

Yeah I’m aware of the averaging process, and the maths. the comment was more about the fact that I put in a decent score and my handicap shots didn’t change, whereas under the old system, you would have seen an immediate reward.

Took a bit of the gloss of it. Ellesborough is not an easy course, the yellows (winter tees are 135) so I’m just highlighting the lack of immediate reward for putting in a good score

The score will still stand to you though, and will see its 'benefit' in a hc reduction at some point even if you dont get it all immediately.
What is your 8th worst score differential now ? It might be not that good a score. You only have to beat that to be cut again, not shoot 40.
I always like to have that 8th score in mind, as even if Im not having a great day, its a good target to chase with the 'reward' of a cut, even if you are well off the prizes.
Your nice 40 pts can yet pay off more for you !

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Thats why my brain isnt handling, if he's playing that course for his previous/existing cards then he's achieving scores based on the self same slope etc, so why would index be 5 shots lower.

Because it’s an average of the best 8 from the last 20

The score will still stand to you though, and will see its 'benefit' in a hc reduction at some point even if you dont get it all immediately.
What is your 8th worst score differential now ? It might be not that good a score. You only have to beat that to be cut again, not shoot 40.
I always like to have that 8th score in mind, as even if Im not having a great day, its a good target to chase with the 'reward' of a cut, evening if you are well off the prizes.
You nice 40 pts can yet pay off more for you !

Next highest to drop off is 100 (23.6)

Cheers I’m happy, just like to be happier