Not sure why I have to keep saying it the CR was changed at the start of the season, we got a new board with all the handicap allowances changed. The club has informed the members that the course is due to be re rated again.
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WHS doesn't work
- Thread starter Captain_Black.
- Start date
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I didn't say it wasn't, but the course was re rated and there were changes to the number of strokes some handicaps got. The club has told the members its being done again. I don't doubt the CR and si are not connected or done by anyone outside the club. I'd even expect it will change again if the motion being put forward at the AGM goes though, which will be the moving of most of the new fairway bunkers as they are in the wrong place for all the club comps, this will start over winter if passed.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
So what is a reasonable selection of clubs as it isn’t mentioned in rule 1.3.?
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes I appreciate that .
But was just giving my personal experience.
I am still single figures but age means my drives are just shy of 240 yds .
This is mainly short of most bunkers on my course.
But off the yellows those same bunkers are bang in my distance.
But one more club second shots off the whites suit me better than long bunker shots off the yellows.
Better accuracy off the tee is the obvious answer.
Up to 14 that the golfer considers will give him a best chance of a scoring well. He cannot take more than 14, and the rules govern the penalty if he does. It wasnt always thus though, and the following is from a Golf Digest article :
“OK, but why a limit and why 14?” As with most rules that involve equipment, advancing technology was one of the culprits.
For years players were content to go into battle armed with a relatively slim array of hickory-shafted weapons. That changed when the steel shaft was universally approved for use in 1929 (the USGA had approved its use earlier but it took some time for the R&A to get on board). Some golfers were torn, not sure they wanted to go to steel because they were unfamiliar with how those clubs would react, but not wanting to pass on potentially better equipment. The solution for many became to have a bag that incorporated both hickory and steel clubs, sending the number of sticks in the bag soaring.
Good news for players. Bad news for the caddies. Those poor bastards often ended up lugging two bags instead of one—and caddies back then weren’t making the kind of scratch they do now. Lawson Little was perhaps the most infamous offender, as the winner of the 1934 and 1935 U.S. and British Amateurs often had 30 clubs at his disposal. Some players went with a set of right-handed and left-handed clubs and a survey at the 1935 U.S. Open showed the average number of clubs in a contestant’s bag was 18.
At this point, the USGA and R&A had seen enough. Just as with today in which the governing bodies are fretting about the role of technology in the game, the rulesmakers back then were afraid that such a large number of clubs would make skill less prominent. Additionally, it provided an advantage for well-to-do golfers who had the wherewithal to purchase more clubs than their less-fortunate brethren.
In 1936 the USGA and R&A adopted the 14-club limit with it going into effect in 1938. It has been in effect since.
Oh, and why 14? No one really knows, although it has been surmised that most common set makeup at the time was four woods, nine irons and a putter. You don’t even need a calculator to know that’s 14 bats.
There are no known cases of sane golfers taking to the course believing they can make their best score by only bringing a 7i and a putter. 3 club challenges can be fun. But even with a 3rd club, there is no logical argument against, that having extra clubs along for the ride, in the off chance that they might be needed, is a help rather than hindrance. Note that it makes no mention of requiring golfers to use both hands to hold the club, or that it is not against the rules nor spirit of handicap golf to make a shot while trying to balance a full glass of beer on one's head, thought that may be covered under the use of artificial aids. Rulefan ?
Rule 1.3 is written with the rational and sane in mind only, and I think that is a reasonable position.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Like I said then they are not breaking any rules. ( up to 14 )
Wether it’s reasonable or not is up for discussion
On the 3 club question I would wager a sand wedge would make a big difference on some courses.
rulefan
Tour Winner
In next year as 10.2c except if it's craft brew.
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Just as an FYI and sorry if this is already known...
3 and 5 club Comps are not acceptable for submitting for handicap (rule 2)
Any restriction on number of clubs makes it not an acceptable format
So while a number of clubs isn't stated its clear that using so few clubs isn't seen as good enough
It'd be pretty strange if GP rounds with just 3 clubs were given the thumbs up when it's a no no for a comp?
3 and 5 club Comps are not acceptable for submitting for handicap (rule 2)
Any restriction on number of clubs makes it not an acceptable format
So while a number of clubs isn't stated its clear that using so few clubs isn't seen as good enough
It'd be pretty strange if GP rounds with just 3 clubs were given the thumbs up when it's a no no for a comp?
sunshine
Well-known member
ok, but what his this got to do with WHS? You're just describing blatant cheating and collusion, which can happen in any handicap system, old or new.
sunshine
Well-known member
Based on your comments (and the lengthy responses from the rules gang), I sense the problem at your club is largely "gamesmanship" rather than a problem with the rules. A bit like a footballer throwing himself to the ground when he feels a bit of contact, "the defender stuck his leg out and the striker had every right to go down there".
Sounds like the issue is the culture at the golf club.
D
Deleted member 30522
Guest
3 clubs in a GP round would be a choice. Forcing people to artificially carry less is why that rule is there.
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Yes that’s perfectly possible .
But not just mine given the posts on here.
My main point is , it’s so much easier to do it under WHS than the old system.
AussieKB
Well-known member
I played today and had to give one player 40 shots, I find if I have a day out then 40-42 points max for me, but these mid to high handicappers can score in excess of 45 points with ease.
ps I shot 6 over for 34 points and came nowhere, which I new would happen.
I play in a lot of Open events and have found that more and more of the single figure golfers are not entering, when I ask why not they comment that they are not competitive anymore so why bother, I do not know what the solution is, but it is a trend out here in OZ.
ps I shot 6 over for 34 points and came nowhere, which I new would happen.
I play in a lot of Open events and have found that more and more of the single figure golfers are not entering, when I ask why not they comment that they are not competitive anymore so why bother, I do not know what the solution is, but it is a trend out here in OZ.
Nobody can score in excess of 45 points with ease unless their handicap is wrong. This is a club issue, not a WHS issue.
34 points generally should come nowhere. So nothing wrong there. Two off your HI is probably the expected score. As you say, you knew it would happen, so outcome and your guess from experience were consistent. (the 6 over is nice golf still, though irrelevant in itself to the handicpped competition you were playing).
rosecott
Money List Winner
No real difference between then and now - as long as you had someone to help you cheat.
Two players together. Play 18 holes. Collude to mark whatever scores they wish.
Cheating is cheating, whatever the system.
Cheating is cheating, whatever the system.
wjemather
Well-known member
The ease of submitting scores without committee intervention is as a result of technology rather than the system. The same technologies and processes would have been introduced had we kept the old UHS system.
I get what you are saying, we have a Sunday Stableford 3 times a month, none of the lower handicap s enter this any longer. Used to even get the really low guys enter the two that were +6 used to play. If you scored 37/38 points you would pretty much win now its 45. However we don't have that many high handicaps, the winners are mosty mid teen.
Was you game not match play?
AussieKB
Well-known member
No it was a Vet's stableford event 116 players in the field from all over, don't think I could play match play against someone receiving 40 shots, it would just do my head in.
wjemather
Well-known member
If they could do it with ease, they wouldn't be mid-high handicappers. For them, they need to have a great day to score that.
So now we're complaining about not winning with over-handicap scores? This is ridiculous.
The solution is to educate these golfers to the fact that, in a field of 100, they have a 1 in 100 chance of winning - they seem to think being a better player entitles them to a much greater chance than that, even when scoring well below their best. It's also much healthier to approach opens (especially handicap ones) as a good value opportunity to play elsewhere and just enjoy the day rather than go pot-hunting.
