WHS doesn't work

[Swango1980]

He had 7 birdies , 2 bogies and blobbed the last !!. We keep telling him to double check his birth certificate to get him into the Seniors, alas he's only 51

Clearly protecting his handicap. It is clear all abilities of golfer are cheating

 

[Imurg]

Is this what you are suggesting has happened with the high scores you have encountered?

What is the marker doing?

Probably sitting next to him in the car park...
I'm not suggesting anything...just pointing out what could happen
And with, potentially hundreds of GP play cards per week so very few get checked and no booking system so no record of who's been on the course...it's no inconceivable.
I don't believe it's happening at my club
It's not often that a comp is won with much more than 40 points or Nett 4 under
It does happen but its not regular and we certainly haven't had 50 points/nett 14 under.
But other clubs have.

 

[wjemather]

I understand it sadly some don’t.
But you said my comments were contradictory but I think they are not.
If there is no minimum club rule they are not breaking any rule as long as they try their best with the clubs they have.
Putting integrity into a rule is wide open to interpretation imo.
What you think is wrong might not be what others think and vice versa.

You cannot abuse the system without breaking the rules.

Playing with an unreasonable selection of clubs does not constitute trying to make the best score possible at each hole, so is not acceptable for handicapping. This is obvious. How hard you try with your one club is irrelevant.

 

[IanM]

Is this what you are suggesting has happened with the high scores you have encountered?

What is the marker doing?

He's keying in his bogus score for the other bloke to mark!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

A lot of Opens out here have moved from Stroke to Stableford because high handicappers will not play Stroke, and clubs need people to play, one club near me has moved to Stableford after 50 years of Stroke to try to attact more players.

Plus in Opens there are no Divisions, hence scores of high 40's win.

maybe you should start playing scratch opens then? And if they don’t exist, maybe clubs should start running them

 

[nickjdavis]

Its possible. If so, it will show up in the differential analysis for both courses. Hc committee should see this and have the courses rerated.
Would be interesting to ask them - if they havent checked, then they arent doing their job. Or they may be able to show that globally either you are an outlier and mistaken, and it is within the expected scores when they look at them all. Or they may already know and agree with you - and just waiting for an assessor to come.

The difficulty with this is the scheduling of the re-rating...you cant just apply to have your course re-rated "next month please"....some counties are on a 4 or 5 year rotation for rating courses. We last had ours done in 2017....we were due to have it done again this year but it was postponed until next year.

 

[nickjdavis]

My experience of white vs yellow is that off most tees I can’t reach the vast majority of bunkers.
Off the yellows I can reach them all.
So although it’s supposed to be easier,it actually plays harder for me.

...and that should be reflected in the course rating for a bogey golfer....which would have an effect on the slope which would give you a different course handicap....however that might then be countered by the fact that it would be harder for you to reach the green with your second shot off the whites than it would off the yellows (assuming you miss the bunker!!).....there are a lot of swings and roundabouts on a golf hole in terms of its rating....the hole may giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!!!

 

[Deleted member 30522]

The difficulty with this is the scheduling of the re-rating...you cant just apply to have your course re-rated "next month please"....some counties are on a 4 or 5 year rotation for rating courses. We last had ours done in 2017....we were due to have it done again this year but it was postponed until next year.

Scotland it's 10 years, but you're correct, unless you make a major course change, they won;t just come on request.

 

[patricks148]

Scotland it's 10 years, but you're correct, unless you make a major course change, they won;t just come on request.

Interesting, we had changes 3 years ago and it was re rated after that, but something wasn't right and was done again in spring and they changed all the Si, still not right, so getting done again. So will be 3 times in 3 years

 

[wjemather]

Interesting, we had changes 3 years ago and it was re rated after that, but something wasn't right and was done again in spring and they changed all the Si, still not right, so getting done again. So will be 3 times in 3 years

That's a bit vague. Do you have any details as to what is thought to be "not right", and by who?

 

[patricks148]

That's a bit vague. Do you have any details as to what is thought to be "not right", and by who?

I can't remember most of the changes other that the Si of 3 holes that were changed, when the course did the changes. Then the last change was the si moved to odds and evens on the front and back as St 1 went to 2 and vice vers. 4th was si18 that switched to 16 and and 15th which was si 12 is now si 18. Also off the white I think anyone over 3 got an extra shot. The 3rd which was si 14 is now 8, because it wa proving to be 1.5 shots higher. Not sure exactly what the issue is but they had already announced the coursevwas being released rated again.

I'm only recounting this from memory as the club bulletin was some months ago.

 

[Backsticks]

Stroke index changes dont need a course assessment. So maybe one wasnt actually done. Club can assign SI autonomously, and while with guidelines, essentially, as it wants.

 

[jim8flog]

There's a lot to take in here. I don't profess to understand it all BUT ... at my place last year I put loads of "cards" in off yellows and came down to 12.5. Yellows are an easy knock round. This made me uncompetitive in the seniors to extent I stopped bothering with comps during the summer where 42points were needed to Finnish top 10. This year, I've put cards in only off whites, much harder, and am now off 15. Still not competetive with the seniors due to baked ground conditions but better. My problem with understanding all this is that surely yellows or whites should make no difference. They have been rated differently so my h/c should be the same off either tees. This is obviously not the case, so the system is flawed and needs much more work.

Where I play the difference in CRs for white and yellow is 1.4. For me the difference is 3 hence just based upon hole length on 3 holes. I will not put in GP cards off the yellow tees for that reason . Sadly the majority of Senior comps are off the yellows so it still affects my H.I..

 

[patricks148]

Stroke index changes dont need a course assessment. So maybe one wasnt actually done. Club can assign SI autonomously, and while with guidelines, essentially, as it wants.

Why would the club tell us the course had been re rated and was going to be again? We had 3 new holes and a new Sg board went up by the 1st tee with changes to handicap at the start of this season, as I said there were increases to certain handicaps

 

[jim8flog]

I can't remember most of the changes other that the Si of 3 holes that were changed, when the course did the changes. Then the last change was the si moved to odds and evens on the front and back as St 1 went to 2 and vice vers. 4th was si18 that switched to 16 and and 15th which was si 12 is now si 18. Also off the white I think anyone over 3 got an extra shot. The 3rd which was si 14 is now 8, because it wa proving to be 1.5 shots higher. Not sure exactly what the issue is but they had already announced the coursevwas being released rated again.

I'm only recounting this from memory as the club bulletin was some months ago.

Odds on one half and evens on the other half is actually a recommendation since the WHS came in.

As already said it is your club committee that sets the SIs.
Appendix E - Stroke Index Allocation
The Rules of Golf state: “The Committee is responsible for publishing on the scorecard or somewhere else that is visible (for example, near the first tee) the order of holes at which handicap strokes are to be given or received.” (See Rules of Golf, Committee Procedures, Rule 5I (4)


If you are interested in reading - Appendix E Rules of Handicapping.

https://www.randa.org/roh/appendices/appendix-e

 

[patricks148]

Odds on one half and evens on the other half is actually a recommendation since the WHS came in. As already said it is your club committee that sets the SIs.

If you are interested in reading - Appendix E Rules of Handicapping.

https://www.randa.org/roh/appendices/appendix-e

They only did the odds and evens this year and informed us the course had had to be re rated. Then got another to say it was getting done again at the start of next season.

 

[Backsticks]

They only did the odds and evens this year and informed us the course had had to be re rated. Then got another to say it was getting done again at the start of next season.

But were there actually CR and Slope revisions the first time. Or is the committee communication poor, and by assessment, they just mean they, themselves, may revise the indexes. If it was reassessed once, and no changes made, then most unlikely it is being done a third time.

 

[patricks148]

But were there actually CR and Slope revisions the first time. Or is the committee communication poor, and by assessment, they just mean they, themselves, may revise the indexes. If it was reassessed once, and no changes made, then most unlikely it is being done a third time.

Yes they built 3 new holes

 

[rulefan]

Yes they built 3 new holes

That explains why the course was (re)rated. It isn't the same course.
But to confirm what others have said - rating has nothing to do with stroke indices. That is the club's business.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

I can't remember most of the changes other that the Si of 3 holes that were changed, when the course did the changes. Then the last change was the si moved to odds and evens on the front and back as St 1 went to 2 and vice vers. 4th was si18 that switched to 16 and and 15th which was si 12 is now si 18. Also off the white I think anyone over 3 got an extra shot. The 3rd which was si 14 is now 8, because it wa proving to be 1.5 shots higher. Not sure exactly what the issue is but they had already announced the coursevwas being released rated again.

I'm only recounting this from memory as the club bulletin was some months ago.

Backsticks is correct, SI is wholly within the club's discretion. There are recomendations, but there is no need to stick to them.