WHS doesn't work

[rulefan]

The fact that you are able to sign in for a card, sit in the car park for a couple of hours, inventing your score, then punch it into the system without taking your clubs out of the boot shows how easy it is.

Is this what you are suggesting has happened with the high scores you have encountered?

What is the marker doing?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Its possible. If so, it will show up in the differential analysis for both courses. Hc committee should see this and have the courses rerated.
Would be interesting to ask them - if they havent checked, then they arent doing their job. Or they may be able to show that globally either you are an outlier and mistaken, and it is within the expected scores when they look at them all. Or they may already know and agree with you - and just waiting for an assessor to come.

There is no report in the Scottish Golf system to review this. Does England golf have one?

 

[Deleted member 30522]

We have been using WHS for many years here in OZ and the mid to high handicappers win all the Opens, very easily, with 44 to plus 50 points, then they flush cards through to regain there handicap, everyone out here sees it and its a joke.

Now a lot of the Open fields are down, missing single figure players.....does not take rocket science to figure out why.

Why are you playing stableford in opens? That ould seem to be your solution, and surely you also have divisions in opens as well?

 

[upsidedown]

Some are .
Some have never put a GP score in.
We have four comps a week so no need for most

Thanks, and of those who are putting in the scores and comps , are there serial winners or is spread around? There around 8-10 guys at our place that put in GP scores a lot but none of them have won this year .

 

[clubchamp98]

Unless this player admits to the reduced number of clubs or youre out there with him....how do you, as a Committee member, know that this has happened?
How do you know that someone has or hasn't tried their best on every shot?
Yes, they're supposed to but you can be pretty sure that not everyone does every time.
The fact that you are able to sign in for a card, sit in the car park for a couple of hours, inventing your score, then punch it into the system without taking your clubs out of the boot shows how easy it is.
Obviously the vast majority don't do that but its also just as easy to deliberately miss a few putts to bump the numbers up.
Yes, again, you're not supposed to do it....but how do you know ?
You can't....simples.

That is blatant cheating though.
What I am talking about is it is so easy to manipulate without doing anything against the “rules”
But saying “someone hasn’t tried their best “ is no way to run a handicap system your correct.

 

[clubchamp98]

Thanks, and of those who are putting in the scores and comps , are there serial winners or is spread around? There around 8-10 guys at our place that put in GP scores a lot but none of them have won this year .

It’s spread around.
At ours it’s not high cappers it’s more middle cappers who were capable of 40/42 but now are shooting 46+.

 

[clubchamp98]

But not his best score possible on each hole.

Is there a minimum club rule???

I am not aware of one !
So it is his best score with the clubs he is carrying.

 

[AussieKB]

Why are you playing stableford in opens? That ould seem to be your solution, and surely you also have divisions in opens as well?

A lot of Opens out here have moved from Stroke to Stableford because high handicappers will not play Stroke, and clubs need people to play, one club near me has moved to Stableford after 50 years of Stroke to try to attact more players.

Plus in Opens there are no Divisions, hence scores of high 40's win.

 

[IanM]

My card yesterday looked as if I was deliberately trying to inflate my handicap.

Sadly I wasn't.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

A lot of Opens out here have moved from Stroke to Stableford because high handicappers will not play Stroke, and clubs need people to play, one club near me has moved to Stableford after 50 years of Stroke to try to attact more players.

Plus in Opens there are no Divisions, hence scores of high 40's win.

Yes that was my point, why isn't there? Even in stableford you can split by divisions, I've never seen an open here that wouldn't do that.

 

[wjemather]

Is there a minimum club rule???

I am not aware of one !
So it is his best score with the clubs he is carrying.

Using just a 7I & putter is obviously not an attempt to make the best score possible at each hole - I can't believe anyone would even try arguing that it is.

 

[Backsticks]

There is no report in the Scottish Golf system to review this. Does England golf have one?

I dont know tbh. Not on committee myself, but know our cttee had our course rerated last spring triggered by data they had for 2021. Both tees changed CR by about 0.6 up if I remember, and the slope of the longer tees increased by 3.
We will probably go winter rules over the next few weeks so will ask if they have a comparison between the two years.

 

[Backsticks]

Is there a minimum club rule???

I am not aware of one !
So it is his best score with the clubs he is carrying.

There isnt. But you know that. Unless he thinks his best score can be achieved by only carrying his 7i and putter.

You can use your putter from the tee if you want. Putt left handed with the back of your 7 iron if you want. Grip your club upsidedown if you want.
No rules against them.

I dont think you are understanding the rule about integrity and not deliberately circumventing the hc system to manipulate your handicap.

 

[upsidedown]

It’s spread around.
At ours it’s not high cappers it’s more middle cappers who were capable of 40/42 but now are shooting 46+.

Looking at ours,
Top score is a 44 off 11 handicap,
4 x 41 ( handicaps 20,18,19,1) ,
3 x 40 ( 22,16,14 )
2 x 39 ( 16,16 )
3 x 38 ( 8, 5, 1 )
2 x 37 ( 19,11 )
1 x 35 ( 11 )

That pretty much ties in with your place except the high scores

 

[wjemather]

I dont know tbh. Not on committee myself, but know our cttee had our course rerated last spring triggered by data they had for 2021. Both tees changed CR by about 0.6 up if I remember, and the slope of the longer tees increased by 3.
We will probably go winter rules over the next few weeks so will ask if they have a comparison between the two years.

There's a "hole statistics" report, which can be filtered by handicap range, from which it would be a simple task to total them up.

 

[Backsticks]

There's a "hole statistics" report, which can be filtered by handicap range, from which it would be a simple task to total them up.

Maybe that was it. Our scores were 'normal' last year though, as far as scores looked to us members, and there was no clamour from the average member that scores were off the scale, or there was something wrong with the ratings.
The committee requested it purely based on the analysis, and I suppose were correct given the albeit small revisions. Scores this year wouldnt look obviously different. 40-42 wins most week. 39-40 some weeks. Very similar pattern to the UHS days.

 

[upsidedown]

Using just a 7I & putter is obviously not an attempt to make the best score possible at each hole - I can't believe anyone would even try arguing that it is.

I agree with you but one of my best scores around own course was a 5 under in a 3 clubs and a putter comp .


Shorter winter course , where 3 wood and 7 iron hit most greens for me

 

[clubchamp98]

There isnt. But you know that. Unless he thinks his best score can be achieved by only carrying his 7i and putter.

You can use your putter from the tee if you want. Putt left handed with the back of your 7 iron if you want. Grip your club upsidedown if you want.
No rules against them.

I dont think you are understanding the rule about integrity and not deliberately circumventing the hc system to manipulate your handicap.

I understand it sadly some don’t.
But you said my comments were contradictory but I think they are not.
If there is no minimum club rule they are not breaking any rule as long as they try their best with the clubs they have.
Putting integrity into a rule is wide open to interpretation imo.
What you think is wrong might not be what others think and vice versa.

 

[clubchamp98]

Looking at ours,
Top score is a 44 off 11 handicap,
4 x 41 ( handicaps 20,18,19,1) ,
3 x 40 ( 22,16,14 )
2 x 39 ( 16,16 )
3 x 38 ( 8, 5, 1 )
2 x 37 ( 19,11 )
1 x 35 ( 11 )

That pretty much ties in with your place except the high scores

Yes it does.
In 130 yrs nobody shot sub 60 .
Since WHS there has been 7 x 59 nett.
It’s calmed down now as I think most came from the initial change over putting caps up.
But 45/46 is the new 42 pts and is more or less what you need to have any chance.

41 off 1 is quite impressive by the way.

 

[upsidedown]

41 off 1 is quite impressive by the way.

He had 7 birdies , 2 bogies and blobbed the last !!. We keep telling him to double check his birth certificate to get him into the Seniors, alas he's only 51