WHS doesn't work

[nickjdavis]

We have three divisions for medals. They used to be fixed categories but often in winter division 3 would have a disproportionally low number of entrants....so we took advantage of Handicapmasters facility where division sizes are automatically balanced, so that 1/3rd of all entrants are in each division. We pay out exactly the same prizes for Divs 1,2 and 3.

We do not have divisions for Stablefords...they are a free for all.

We find that there is a reasonably even balance of scores/finishing positions across the various handicap groups for stableford, wheras for medals, lower handicaps are more consistent, less likely to NR and more likely to "do well" - note I did not say more likely to win...I'm talking about the general distribution of handicaps v. finishing positions across the results sheet....in medals lower handicappers do better in terms of overall finishing position than higher handicappers....hence the divisions are there to ensure that higher handicappers have a chance of sharing in some of the prize fund.

 

[Bdill93]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

 

[rulefan]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

It that is an issue, it is Course Rating not WHS. CR was introduced over 10 years before WHS. What were the original SSSs?

 

[Swango1980]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

Presumably CR is higher, relative to Par, at Hayling? If so, you can be comforted by the fact that if you were anywhere else in the world outside the UK, you would be playing off a noticeably higher handicap at Hayling.

 

[Bdill93]

It that is an issue, it is Course Rating not WHS. CR was introduced over 10 years before WHS. What were the original SSSs?

At my place 68 SSS

Presumably CR is higher, relative to Par, at Hayling? If so, you can be comforted by the fact that if you were anywhere else in the world outside the UK, you would be playing off a noticeably higher handicap at Hayling.

It just doesn't make sense to me

 

[Imurg]

Presumably CR is higher, relative to Par, at Hayling? If so, you can be comforted by the fact that if you were anywhere else in the world outside the UK, you would be playing off a noticeably higher handicap at Hayling.

CR off the yellows is 70.1
Par is 71
Slope is 118.

 

[sunshine]

Presumably CR is higher, relative to Par, at Hayling? If so, you can be comforted by the fact that if you were anywhere else in the world outside the UK, you would be playing off a noticeably higher handicap at Hayling.

This is where they have really messed up

 

[Backsticks]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

Thats the beauty of the Worlds Apart Handicap System.

 

[Neilds]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

Pre WHS you would have had the same amount of shots on every course you played, what are you moaning about?

 

[AussieKB]

The system is built and designed for the USA so why is the rest of the world using it, here in OZ we have had to put up with it for many years, and each year it is tweaked so it looks nothing like the original.

Played today where we had a guy play off a 49 handicap and he had 40 points.....it is a joke.

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

 

[r0wly86]

The system is built and designed for the USA so why is the rest of the world using it, here in OZ we have had to put up with it for many years, and each year it is tweaked so it looks nothing like the original.

Played today where we had a guy play off a 49 handicap and he had 40 points.....it is a joke.

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

what is so different about golf in the USA compared to the rest of the world that means the system doesn't work?

 

[wjemather]

It blows my mind that I only got 1 shot yesterday at Hayling and I get 1 shot at my home club.

Courses are absolutely worlds apart

And they are rated accordingly.
Par 69, CR 67.1 (whites) and 65.8 (yellows) at home versus par 71, CR 71.4 (whites) and 70.1 (yellows) at Hayling.

As had been said before, course handicap in GB&I tells you nothing about course difficulty.

 

[AussieKB]

what is so different about golf in the USA compared to the rest of the world that means the system doesn't work?

The way they rate courses for a start....plus how many cards they enter per year.....
I enter minimum of 120 each year, no joke.

 

[Swango1980]

The system is built and designed for the USA so why is the rest of the world using it, here in OZ we have had to put up with it for many years, and each year it is tweaked so it looks nothing like the original.

Played today where we had a guy play off a 49 handicap and he had 40 points.....it is a joke.

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

Personally, I still prefer the way you guys do it in Oz than here. Been a while since I read your WHS manual, but from memory you seem to embed 93% into the course handicap (which you call daily handicap). You also include CR-Par within that calculation. So, once you get your Daily Handicap, I'm assuming you can often get on with playing, perhaps unless you are playing a format like Fourball Match Play or another infrequent form of team golf?

Whereas over here, not only is CR-Par not accounted for (which is not a show stopper in stopping the system from working, but adds to confusion when players don't feel they are getting the adjustments they think they need when playing a very hard or easy course), but the course handicap needs to be adjusted by a certain percentage more often than not, except when playing singles match play. So, more often than not, 95% must be factored in (except players don't when playing socially, and then get even more confused when they play a competition and wrongly think they are being penalised if their handicap comes down) as most play singles stableford. Most golfers I know, that don't bother wasting times on forums like these, are still clueless as to why all these different adjustments are made. Many just give up trying to understand, and do what they are told, whereas others grumble and moan, often because they simply don't understand the system.

It could have been made so much more easy to understand, and better implemented, and I think other countries have, at least, done a better job of it.

The allowance of very high handicappers is not really a WHS issue, as that came into the UK pre-WHS (not sure about you guys). Personally, I actually support allowing higher handicaps, as there are many golfers who needed more shots than the previous Max of 28. I think the increase in allowance has made the game much more enjoyable for them, which is a good thing. My only issue is that brand new golfers can be given massively high handicaps with fewer than 20 scores under their belt. I will always firmly believe that, to protect the field, there should be bigger restrictions on handicaps until a player has a full quota of 20 scores under their belt.

 

[wjemather]

The system is built and designed for the USA so why is the rest of the world using it, here in OZ we have had to put up with it for many years, and each year it is tweaked so it looks nothing like the original.

Played today where we had a guy play off a 49 handicap and he had 40 points.....it is a joke.

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

The system is designed for golf. Sure, WHS is basically an evolution of the old USGA system that was originally formulated from data collected in the US, but worldwide data has been used since then. Several features of WHS are taken directly from the pre-WHS GA system.

Why shouldn't all ages and abilities be able to have a handicap?

Some players get to scratch or better without ever having a lesson.

 

[Swango1980]

And they are rated accordingly.
Par 69, CR 67.1 (whites) and 65.8 (yellows) at home versus par 71, CR 71.4 (whites) and 70.1 (yellows) at Hayling.

As had been said before, course handicap in GB&I tells you nothing about course difficulty.

That is pretty much exactly the point Bdill93 was highlighting. I suspect he thinks they should account for course difficulty, like they do in the rest of the world.

 

[wjemather]

The way they rate courses for a start....plus how many cards they enter per year.....
I enter minimum of 120 each year, no joke.

Courses are rated using the same system.
So your issue with it is basically that you play too much golf, or others don't play enough.

 

[bobmac]

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

''Why should I waste my time practicing when I can just rely on my massively high handicap to help me win''.
And if I don't win, I'll make sure my handicap is even higher next year.
Net comps are rarely won by good players...just the golfer with the wrongest handicap.

 

[Neilds]

The system is built and designed for the USA so why is the rest of the world using it, here in OZ we have had to put up with it for many years, and each year it is tweaked so it looks nothing like the original.

Played today where we had a guy play off a 49 handicap and he had 40 points.....it is a joke.

Don't go and get lessons we will just give you more handicap seems to be the rule of thought.

I don't think that 40 points is anything excessive.

A 49 handicap though............

 

[wjemather]

''Why should I waste my time practicing when I can just rely on my massively high handicap to help me win''.
And if I don't win, I'll make sure my handicap is even higher next year.
Net comps are rarely won by good players...just the golfer with the wrongest handicap.

Utter rubbish.