WHS doesn't work

[Slab]

I kind of agree with this, but then the answer is to use divisions and each division plays of scratch.
Leave handicapping for matchplay for which it was originally designed.

Yeah I can see scenarios where that'd work quite well and it incentives self-improvement too for those who otherwise might be seeking an 'extra' shot or two (a bit like the old Cat 1-5 scale used)

Gapping would take a few mins to see what suits best i.e +/0 to 5, 6-13, 14-23, 24-36, 37-54 with increasing increments

edit: dunno that it would fit for all comps mind you

 

[Crow]

I kind of agree with this, but then the answer is to use divisions and each division plays of scratch.
Leave handicapping for matchplay for which it was originally designed.

How many divisions would you need to play off scratch?
Say 5 divisions, some of those will be heavily populated and others not, and who wants to be effectively giving 5 or 10 shots to others in their div?

Probably the biggest complaint you'd get from golfers though, including those who moan about the single comp system, is: "but I want to play with my mates and they're in different divisions".

 

[Swango1980]

How many divisions would you need to play off scratch?
Say 5 divisions, some of those will be heavily populated and others not, and who wants to be effectively giving 5 or 10 shots to others in their div?

Probably the biggest complaint you'd get from golfers though, including those who moan about the single comp system, is: "but I want to play with my mates and they're in different divisions".

Why would they not be able to play with their mates? I don't see why players from different divisions couldn't still play together?

 

[Crow]

Why would they not be able to play with their mates? I don't see why players from different divisions couldn't still play together?

Good point!

 

[jim8flog]

Lowest handicap was +7!! Why is he still an amateur?!

I remember being in the club bar with our lowest handicap player in 1998. he was asked why he did not turn Pro. His replay was that he earned more money doing his existing job.
Back then any player below about 50 on the money list earned less than I did.

 

[jim8flog]

Limiting entry to comps to 24 would have repercussions where I play.
To play on a Saturday when there is a comp on you have to play in the comp to be able to play.
Imagine paying a full membership fee only to be told you cannot play on certain Saturdays.

 

[Swango1980]

I remember being in the club bar with our lowest handicap player in 1998. he was asked why he did not turn Pro. His replay was that he earned more money doing his existing job.
Back then any player below about 50 on the money list earned less than I did.

True that. Turning pro is a big step for any golfer. At elite amateur level, they get a lot of support from the Unions, England Golf etc. As soon as they turn pro, they are pretty much on their own. Need to get sponsorship, and start doing well in events to earn their keep, pay their caddies, travel, etc. If they are brilliant and make it into the top few hundred golfers in the world, it probably pays off handsomely. But, if they struggle and miss a lot of cuts, things can become very very difficult. So, I'm sure there are a lot of amateur golfers of very low handicaps who make the decision to continue at amateur level, especially if they have a career and way of life that allows them to live comfortably.

 

[woofers]

Maybe time to retitle this thread ? Seems to have moved away from ‘WHS not working?’

 

[Swango1980]

Maybe time to retitle this thread ? Seems to have moved away from ‘WHS not working?’

It's 191 pages long.

I think it would be sensible to expect the conversation of any thread to drift a little bit once in a while.

Don't worry though, as soon as anyone has a point to make about WHS being flawed, they'll be straight back in here to get us back on topic.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Maybe time to retitle this thread ? Seems to have moved away from ‘WHS not working?’

101 Reasons People Don’t Understand WHS would be a more suitable title.

 

[woofers]

I think it would be sensible to expect the conversation of any thread to drift a little bit once in a while.

I’m not sure about it being sensible, I think possibly you mean inevitable.
It is a pain when a thread degenerates away from the title.
I am quite comfortable not venturing into threads about football or electric vehicles as I have no interest in either. I am comfortable avoiding the LIV thread, it was relevant when new, but after a while became a tiresome slanging match, going round in circles.
I like to look in here as I am actively involved in handicaps at my club and can gain knowledge and experiences from others about the practical workings, or not, of WHS.

 

[Whereditgo]

Limiting entry to comps to 24 would have repercussions where I play.
To play on a Saturday when there is a comp on you have to play in the comp to be able to play.
Imagine paying a full membership fee only to be told you cannot play on certain Saturdays.

Surely the limitation is only in relation to the HI an entrant can play off? It doesn't preclude anyone from entering and playing.

We have a competition ceiling of 26 HI for competitions.

 

[Swango1980]

I’m not sure about it being sensible, I think possibly you mean inevitable.
It is a pain when a thread degenerates away from the title.
I am quite comfortable not venturing into threads about football or electric vehicles as I have no interest in either. I am comfortable avoiding the LIV thread, it was relevant when new, but after a while became a tiresome slanging match, going round in circles.
I like to look in here as I am actively involved in handicaps at my club and can gain knowledge and experiences from others about the practical workings, or not, of WHS.

Sadly, you've just added 5 comments (and counting) to this thread that are not related to WHS not working

Imagine having to rename a thread every time a comment appears not directly related to the title!? Most threads over 1 page would probably need to be retitled. And, in this case, if we rename the thread, where would anyone post about WHS not working. Start another thread?

 

[clubchamp98]

Limiting entry to comps to 24 would have repercussions where I play.
To play on a Saturday when there is a comp on you have to play in the comp to be able to play.
Imagine paying a full membership fee only to be told you cannot play on certain Saturdays.

You can still play in the comp!
You just have to play off 24.
That might seem harsh but it should encourage players to get better.

In my experience you don’t see many high cappers on the practice ground but you see lots of low cappers!
Especially on the short game area.

 

[Slab]

You can still play in the comp!
You just have to play off 24.
That might seem harsh but it should encourage players to get better.

In my experience you don’t see many high cappers on the practice ground but you see lots of low cappers!
Especially on the short game area.

Probably true in many clubs, one of the reasons I encourage my wife to go to short game area weekly if she can... but also clubs have to be welcoming to newbies to the game. My home club fortunately is

Lets not mention, ok I will, how many established clubs don't even have a proper practice range let alone a short game area. If a club won't support 'getting better' with the minimum facilities (& a field or net doesn't count) is it any surprise there's a requirement for 54 handicap limit

 

[clubchamp98]

Probably true in many clubs, one of the reasons I encourage my wife to go to short game area weekly if she can... but also clubs have to be welcoming to newbies to the game. My home club fortunately is

Lets not mention, ok I will, how many established clubs don't even have a proper practice range let alone a short game area. If a club won't support 'getting better' with the minimum facilities (& a field or net doesn't count) is it any surprise there's a requirement for 54 handicap limit

That’s a fair argument.

But the ones that do inc mine, you don’t see many high cappers on it.
But the low guys (and it is men )use it all the time.
Not sure why the ladies don’t use it as we have some very good ones. Maybe they go elsewhere.

I can’t get into most scratch events now as my cap is to high so it happens at both ends.
When they tell me I’m not good enough to play in their event. It’s a COC simple as that!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Has Andy been on the forum?

Seems there are still a lot of people who haven’t been bothered to learn how it works. Including some shop pros.

 

[Imurg]

Has Andy been on the forum?

Seems there are still a lot of people who haven’t been bothered to learn how it works. Including some shop pros.

Andy was a member of a club two years ago - he says so in the video.
He had 2 years out and has now gone back.
He must have been putting cards in under WHS before he left.....
So either he didn't understand it then, still doesn't and doesn't want to or.....
It's been badly communicated by EG and/or his club.
Communication about WHS has been really quite comprehensive at my club but there are still plenty of people who have little to no idea what's going on.
If people don't want to know it's very hard to force them to...but it doesn't give them much credibility when they complain about it.
The information is out there, albeit sometimes a bit convoluted.

 

[nickh]

It seems to me that he is perpetuating a wilful ignorance to drive a particular narrative/clicks.

I had to laugh when he said that he has been out of the game for 2 years, whilst simultaneously building a YouTube channel slap bang in the middle of the golfing eco-system

 

[wjemather]

It seems to me that he is perpetuating a wilful ignorance to drive a particular narrative/clicks.

I had to laugh when he said that he has been out of the game for 2 years, whilst simultaneously building a YouTube channel slap bang in the middle of the golfing eco-system

Absolutely. Willful ignorance, partial truths, and complete untruths.
When he said he hasn't submitted scores for 2 years, he must have meant (at least) 6 because there is no other way his HI would be that volatile as a result of the submission of a couple of (apparently) ordinary scores.