WHS doesn't work

[2blue]

Our total income from entry fees for 2023 was just under £20000, of which 80% is directly paid out in prizes.
80% of the rake is allocated before the season starts (to cover various costs, prizes and external entry fees), leaving under £500 for any ad-hoc expenditure and expenses - not enough to fund a paid position for 1 hour per week.

To be honest I wasn't really meaning making it a fully paid job just maybe 50% towards Annual Subs etc as recognition of more work required as most of these roles are covered by volunteers,

 

[AussieKB]

Two single handicap friends played a 4BBB yesterday, in OZ they give you full handicap, winning score was 52 points, said they will never play in another one, total waste of time.

 

[Slab]

Two single handicap friends played a 4BBB yesterday, in OZ they give you full handicap, winning score was 52 points, said they will never play in another one, total waste of time.

What did the friends score?

 

[Swango1980]

Two single handicap friends played a 4BBB yesterday, in OZ they give you full handicap, winning score was 52 points, said they will never play in another one, total waste of time.

I bet they do though.

 

[AussieKB]

What did the friends score?

42.......h'cap 4 & 5 at an away course.......trouble is they both played well on the same holes, but no way can they get to 52.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Two single handicap friends played a 4BBB yesterday, in OZ they give you full handicap, winning score was 52 points, said they will never play in another one, total waste of time.

What has that got to do with WHS?

 

[rulefan]

Two single handicap friends played a 4BBB yesterday, in OZ they give you full handicap, winning score was 52 points, said they will never play in another one, total waste of time.

Although a large part of the WHS was apparently based on the old GA system I get the impression from the GA Official reference guide for Australian administrators that GA is now the authority with the most variations from the 'basic' WHS

 

[AussieKB]

What has that got to do with WHS?

I was pointing out that they get FULL handicap out here, I thought WHS was meant to make it a level playing field, where everyone has a chance to win.......

 

[Deleted member 15717]

I was pointing out that they get FULL handicap out here, I thought WHS was meant to make it a level playing field, where everyone has a chance to win.......

Surely it is a GA issue. They set the parameters. The indices of players are portable, but if GA choose to make it 100%, and not try to make it somewhat equitable, that is on them

 

[Alan Clifford]

Going from England to South Africa


Going from South Africa to England


Twice a year, I would have to do the former on the HNA app/website and, twice a year, the bloke at my club in England would have to do the latter.

For practical purposes, I keep both current.

4bbb entry has been easy so far. It is an allowable format in South Africa so could be entered on the English system when played in South Africa. But now it is allowable in England but with different rules from South Africa, so two dilemmas: how to enter South African 4bbb into EG and how to enter English 4bbb into HNA.

I know I am an edge case and it's early days for a world wide handicap system but using two different methods makes it increasing difficult to keep the handicaps the same. Practically speaking, I'm unlikely to have a 4bbb in England and I expect the easy way out for my English club is to enter a South African 4bbb into the EG system using the South African algorithm.

And the next problem is:

The HNA system doesn't accept foreign 9 hole scores. But they did say I could submit the scaled up adjusted gross and ratings, which I did. Now they've changed to the new differential add-on system, there isn't a scaled up 18 hole adjusted gross anymore

 

[Alan Clifford]

That’s an interesting dilemma and it won’t be unbelievably rare as it will possibly affect anyone who has an HI in a jurisdiction outside CONGU as well as a CONGU one. In your case SA to UK is straightforward but how will SA or any other overseas jurisdiction input 4BB derived scores that will appear on a player’s record. If they can’t you won’t have identical records and therefore a correct HI that is portable worldwide, a key tenet of WHS.

My indexes have never been identical. Different algorithms for 9 hole scaling up. Different algorithms for course handicap which produces an occassional net double bogey using one and a net triple using the other.

 

[rulie]

I was pointing out that they get FULL handicap out here, I thought WHS was meant to make it a level playing field, where everyone has a chance to win.......

My recollection is that Australia were a leader in developing and using data in correcting the bias towards low handicap players winning handicapped events, ie, they worked hard to balance the "odds".

 

[D-S]

My indexes have never been identical. Different algorithms for 9 hole scaling up. Different algorithms for course handicap which produces an occassional net double bogey using one and a net triple using the other.

I guess in the great run of things this isn’t the end of the world for most normal golfers but it can be for elite players where balloting out occurs or doesn’t dependent on a few decimal of HI. We have an issue in the County potentially coming up.

 

[rulefan]

Surely it is a GA issue. They set the parameters. The indices of players are portable, but if GA choose to make it 100%, and not try to make it somewhat equitable, that is on them

Rules of Handicapping
Appendix C: Handicap Allowances
The National Association is responsible for establishing handicap allowances or it can delegate this responsibility to a Regional Golf Association or golf club.

 

[Genu9]

The rules for the calculation of score differentials are determined by the jurisdiction where the round is played.

And therein lies the fundamental problem, 'jurisdiction'. They will never agree to agree so you can never have a truly 'WHS'.
Like the 'non-conforming Sparrow, If you're warm and happy in a pile of sh**, then keep your mouth shut'.

For those of you not familiar the adage.

The Sparrow

 

[Swango1980]

And therein lies the fundamental problem, 'jurisdiction'. They will never agree to agree so you can never have a truly 'WHS'.
Like the 'non-conforming Sparrow, If you're warm and happy in a pile of sh**, then keep your mouth shut'.

For those of you not familiar the adage.

The Sparrow

For those so hung up in trying to define what "World" means when trying to be critical, how about an even worse idea:

A system with absolutely zero flexibility whatsoever. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it, the application of the system is exactly the same here as it is in the USA, Australia, Congo, Iran, Thailand and Kiribati. No consideration to geography, climate, or general mindset of the individuals in any country. We just must follow the exact same process.

I'm not sure such an inflexible system would have gone down well at all, by virtually anyone.

I'd much rather have a system that had some flexibility, so that it can be tailored to meet the general desires of the people within a region. Whilst, at the same time, calculating the Index in a consistent enough manner everywhere, so that if anyone goes to play anywhere else, their Index is still applicable. Whether it is multiplied by 95% in one region, whilst in another multiplied by 45, then the square root calculated to get playing handicap is pretty much irrelevant. If you aren't happy with the playing allowance, contact the individual authority and ask why they took that step.

 

[clubchamp98]

For those so hung up in trying to define what "World" means when trying to be critical, how about an even worse idea:

A system with absolutely zero flexibility whatsoever. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it, the application of the system is exactly the same here as it is in the USA, Australia, Congo, Iran, Thailand and Kiribati. No consideration to geography, climate, or general mindset of the individuals in any country. We just must follow the exact same process.

I'm not sure such an inflexible system would have gone down well at all, by virtually anyone.

I'd much rather have a system that had some flexibility, so that it can be tailored to meet the general desires of the people within a region. Whilst, at the same time, calculating the Index in a consistent enough manner everywhere, so that if anyone goes to play anywhere else, their Index is still applicable. Whether it is multiplied by 95% in one region, whilst in another multiplied by 45, then the square root calculated to get playing handicap is pretty much irrelevant. If you aren't happy with the playing allowance, contact the individual authority and ask why they took that step.

Think we all know what World means.

So why use it if it dosnt stack up.

There’s plenty of other words they could have used.

 

[Genu9]

For those so hung up in trying to define what "World" means when trying to be critical, how about an even worse idea:

A system with absolutely zero flexibility whatsoever. Whether you, I or anyone else likes it, the application of the system is exactly the same here as it is in the USA, Australia, Congo, Iran, Thailand and Kiribati. No consideration to geography, climate, or general mindset of the individuals in any country. We just must follow the exact same process.

I'm not sure such an inflexible system would have gone down well at all, by virtually anyone.

I'd much rather have a system that had some flexibility, so that it can be tailored to meet the general desires of the people within a region. Whilst, at the same time, calculating the Index in a consistent enough manner everywhere, so that if anyone goes to play anywhere else, their Index is still applicable. Whether it is multiplied by 95% in one region, whilst in another multiplied by 45, then the square root calculated to get playing handicap is pretty much irrelevant. If you aren't happy with the playing allowance, contact the individual authority and ask why they took that step.

So don't call it 'World'. (Call it 'Regional' with variations to be aligned where agreed.) Utopia doesn't exist. Crickey, even Professional golf can't agree to disagree.

 

[Swango1980]

So don't call it 'World'. (Call it 'Regional' with variations to be aligned where agreed.) Utopia doesn't exist. Crickey, even Professional golf can't agree to disagree.

OK. Let's call it the "Regional Handicap System Consistent with Global Variations of other Regional Systems" or simply RHSCGVRS

Yes, really catchy. While we are at it, we can change the name of any organisation or system anywhere that contains "World", because inevitably there will be variations of some kind in various parts of the World in nearly all cases.

 

[rulefan]

The first sport that came to mind was boxing BUT
The World Boxing Association, (formerly known as the National Boxing Association, is the oldest) and one of four major organizations which sanction professional boxing bouts, alongside the World Boxing Council, International Boxing Federation and World Boxing Organization