WHS doesn't work

[Bdill93]

I'm not sure I'd be all that welcome at some courses & hopefully @Bdill93 doesn't mind me using his course for ref (this came up many many pages back)

His tips are CR/SR 67.1/122 @ 5,500 yrds par 69 : I'm an overseas index of 14.5 so according to their course handicap table I'd rock up one sunny morning, check the table and get a CH of 16
Now I'm not a betting man but I might put a shekel or two on Slab EW (not to blow any trumpets) because the closest tees at my home club to that CR/SR means I play off CH of 12 for what's still a longer course even off our forward tees

Some forumers have been patient in trying to explain to me how that all works but it still fogs my noodle

Yeah our course is just a bit silly! CR-Par wil make some difference to winning scores but still, if you want to lower your handicap feel free to come for a round!

 

[D-S]

I'm not sure I'd be all that welcome at some courses & hopefully @Bdill93 doesn't mind me using his course for ref (this came up many many pages back)

His tips are CR/SR 67.1/122 @ 5,500 yrds par 69 : I'm an overseas index of 14.5 so according to their course handicap table I'd rock up one sunny morning, check the table and get a CH of 16
Now I'm not a betting man but I might put a shekel or two on Slab EW (not to blow any trumpets) because the closest tees at my home club to that CR/SR means I play off CH of 12 for what's still a longer course even off our forward tees

Some forumers have been patient in trying to explain to me how that all works but it still fogs my noodle

I estimate from April 1st that you would have a CH of 13.75, at 95% (if it was an individual comp) your Playing Handicap would be 13 - are you still a dead cert?

 

[Slab]

I estimate from April 1st that you would have a CH of 13.75, at 95% (if it was an individual comp) your Playing Handicap would be 13 - are you still a dead cert?

that's good to hear but doesn't account for my (very) hypothetical winnings over the last 4 years (Slab in gold lettering, I just just see it)

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not sure I'd be all that welcome at some courses & hopefully @Bdill93 doesn't mind me using his course for ref (this came up many many pages back)

His tips are CR/SR 67.1/122 @ 5,500 yrds par 69 : I'm an overseas index of 14.5 so according to their course handicap table I'd rock up one sunny morning, check the table and get a CH of 16
Now I'm not a betting man but I might put a shekel or two on Slab EW (not to blow any trumpets) because the closest tees at my home club to that CR/SR means I play off CH of 12 for what's still a longer course even off our forward tees

Some forumers have been patient in trying to explain to me how that all works but it still fogs my noodle

What are the ratings and Par at your course? Sounds to me like your Course Rating is a long way under Par and maybe a pretty low slope?

 

[Slab]

What are the ratings and Par at your course? Sounds to me like your Course Rating is a long way under Par and maybe a pretty low slope?

Compared to that course CR then yes

there's 5 sets of tees but for the tees closest to the example I used (and the ones I'm a CH of 12 on) are par 72 CR/SR 68.6/122 at 6,000yrds (so 500 longer) & course layout is not considered easy/banal

There's two sets of tees behind these and two in front

 

[D-S]

Compared to that course CR then yes

there's 5 sets of tees but for the tees closest to the example I used (and the ones I'm a CH of 12 on) are par 72 CR/SR 68.6/122 at 6,000yrds (so 500 longer) & course layout is not considered easy/banal

There's two sets of tees behind these and two in front

None of this sounds too out of kilter, we have a course of 5600 yards with a CR of 67.6 slope 117 and a course at 6000 yards at 69.6 slope 125 (both par 70) so this puts the two courses you are talking about right.
About 500 yards and a difference of 1.5 shots is not ridiculously wrong, not knowing the nature and topography of the courses. If the shorter course has a lot of forced lay ups for example it can play a lot longer.
This all doesn’t make WHS wrong.

 

[Swango1980]

Compared to that course CR then yes

there's 5 sets of tees but for the tees closest to the example I used (and the ones I'm a CH of 12 on) are par 72 CR/SR 68.6/122 at 6,000yrds (so 500 longer) & course layout is not considered easy/banal

There's two sets of tees behind these and two in front

Often need to be careful with perception, but that sounds about right. CR is a fair bit lower than Par, and slope isn't high either. So, I would expect the course to feel pretty easy, especially when comparing to the pars of the scorecard, hence you playing off 12.

At the other course, you will play off 14 come April, so only 2 shots more. But, bearing in mind the par at the other course is 3 less than yours. So, based on CR you would probably expect to shoot one less shot around his course. But, bearing in mind than the par of his course is 3 less than yours, it actually means you get another couple of shots.

 

[Slab]

None of this sounds too out of kilter, we have a course of 5600 yards with a CR of 67.6 slope 117 and a course at 6000 yards at 69.6 slope 125 (both par 70) so this puts the two courses you are talking about right.
About 500 yards and a difference of 1.5 shots is not ridiculously wrong, not knowing the nature and topography of the courses. If the shorter course has a lot of forced lay ups for example it can play a lot longer.
This all doesn’t make WHS wrong.

Often need to be careful with perception, but that sounds about right. CR is a fair bit lower than Par, and slope isn't high either. So, I would expect the course to feel pretty easy, especially when comparing to the pars of the scorecard, hence you playing off 12.

At the other course, you will play off 14 come April, so only 2 shots more. But, bearing in mind the par at the other course is 3 less than yours. So, based on CR you would probably expect to shoot one less shot around his course. But, bearing in mind than the par of his course is 3 less than yours, it actually means you get another couple of shots.

I was only replying to the 'one of the tests' post on previous page to highlight that for 4 years and until 1st april I 'suspect' i'd receive too many shots at some courses when bringing an overseas index to the UK

I've not set foot on the UK one and I'm sure it'd be an enjoyable day to play there but from what @Bdill93 has posted when discussed previously, I'd not be faced with a overly difficult course compared to where I play

Anyway as mentioned it'll be moot in a week or so anyway

 

[Swango1980]

I was only replying to the 'one of the tests' post on previous page to highlight that for 4 years and until 1st april I 'suspect' i'd receive too many shots at some courses when bringing an overseas index to the UK

I've not set foot on the UK one and I'm sure it'd be an enjoyable day to play there but from what @Bdill93 has posted when discussed previously, I'd not be faced with a overly difficult course compared to where I play

Anyway as mentioned it'll be moot in a week or so anyway

It probably won't be. Which is why, when you finish all 18 holes, if you play to handicap you should probably get round his course in a shot less than yours. That would have been true before and after the April changes

 

[D-S]

I was only replying to the 'one of the tests' post on previous page to highlight that for 4 years and until 1st april I 'suspect' i'd receive too many shots at some courses when bringing an overseas index to the UK

I've not set foot on the UK one and I'm sure it'd be an enjoyable day to play there but from what @Bdill93 has posted when discussed previously, I'd not be faced with a overly difficult course compared to where I play

Anyway as mentioned it'll be moot in a week or so anyway

You would have received ‘too many shots’ but so would every one else who you would be playing with. The result on your score and the calculation in the background would be the same in the UK as it would have been in your own jurisdiction.
The only thing that is changing is that now in the UK it will be the same up front as it is with you.

 

[Bdill93]

You would have received ‘too many shots’ but so would every one else who you would be playing with. The result on your score and the calculation in the background would be the same in the UK as it would have been in your own jurisdiction.
The only thing that is changing is that now in the UK it will be the same up front as it is with you.

You certainly wont win at raven on anything less than 40 points, normally 42+

 

[AussieKB]

You certainly wont win at raven on anything less than 40 points, normally 42+

But I thought WHS has sorted this out....where everyone is equal, did not know I have to shoot under par to be in with a shout, and not just under.

 

[D-S]

You certainly wont win at raven on anything less than 40 points, normally 42+

Exactly but from April 1st all those scores will be 2 points lower.

All this just goes to show what a dumb decision it was of CONGU not to introduce CR-Par in 2020, we wouldn’t have had this confusion and the system would have been more universal (by this I mean comparable across earthly jurisdictions not a fair and equitable system for Humans, Vogons, Klingons and Ewoks)

 

[D-S]

But I thought WHS has sorted this out....where everyone is equal, did not know I have to shoot under par to be in with a shout, and not just under.

No because we haven’t as yet introduced CR-Par - we will on 1/4 , then at Bdill93’s course you will only need 38 to 40 which is a good day in the sun for people of a range of handicaps.

 

[Bdill93]

Exactly but from April 1st all those scores will be 2 points lower.

All this just goes to show what a dumb decision it was of CONGU not to introduce CR-Par in 2020, we wouldn’t have had this confusion and the system would have been more universal (by this I mean comparable across earthly jurisdictions not a fair and equitable system for Humans, Vogons, Klingons and Ewoks)

Yeah I know, will make it a bit more equitable with other clubs scorings etc. but nothing will ever stop the fact that the course is just easy and people "have a day in the sun" quite often.

 

[Bdill93]

No because we haven’t as yet introduced CR-Par - we will on 1/4 , then at Bdill93’s course you will only need 38 to 40 which is a good day in the sun for people of a range of handicaps.

Yeah, at present 38 is playing to Handicap by a rule of thumb at our place. We do see 45+'s as well though, again, just the nature of an easy course.

 

[Alan Clifford]

So who made the decision four years ago for GB&I to leave out CR-Par when the rest of the 'World' included it? At that point in time it ceased to be what it was supposed to be. Now four years late it's included.

But they included it in the 9 hole differential calculation. How could that be justified?

 

[IanM]

I wouldn't worry about it....

 

[wjemather]

But they included it in the 9 hole differential calculation. How could that be justified?

Constancy with how it was previously.
Most probably never realised it and just halved their handicaps, but CR-Par was included in the 9-hole calculation under UHS.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Constancy with how it was previously.
Most probably never realised it and just halved their handicaps, but CR-Par was included in the 9-hole calculation under UHS.

Yes, but this was supposed to be a new system. Keeping stuff the same as it used to be should have not have been a factor. But at least they are doing the right thing on 1st April.