WHS doesn't work

[Voyager EMH]

It's only really a problem at my club in the Senior section tbh.
The Men's scores, by & large are not outrageous.
The Seniors on the other hand

Anyone under about 15 or 16 h/c has no chance.
The ones that are doing the damage with the outrageous scores are the 20 - 30 h/c mob
The over 30 h/c & there are a few are pretty genuine & are either elderly or just terrible golfers.

The h/c Committee are fully aware of the issue but seem powerless or unwilling to act.
It's got to the stage now where I believe it's just accepted that this is the new normal.
It's resulted in many of the under 20 h/c golfers only playing in the men's comps off the longer tee's.

Other way round at my club.
Seniors have their own comps as well as the club-wide comps and hence submit more cards and tend to have realistic up-to-date handicaps.

 

[wjemather]

Well guess who turned up at club night and shot 21pts in EIGHT holes and walked away with the MONEY!

Par Par Bogey Par Bogey Par Par Par !

Not bad considering his recent form when submitting cards.


View attachment 48599View attachment 48600View attachment 48601View attachment 48602

Having looked at his handicap record, there are obviously questions to be answered, both of the player and the handicap committee responsible.
Without the hard cap, his index would be up over 18 from 8.5 in less than a year! Players simply don't go from (very) consistently returning differentials between 4 and 14 (and almost nothing worse) for several years, to returning differentials between 15 and 25+ (and nothing better) a couple of months later without there being exceptional circumstances (e.g. injury, illness, etc.). The volume of nett double-bogeys recorded without having anything worse (i.e. no ndb adjustments) is also very unusual. His scoring during winter 2021-22 was also interesting.
I can't understand how a handicap committee could overlook this.

 

[wjemather]

It's only really a problem at my club in the Senior section tbh.
The Men's scores, by & large are not outrageous.
The Seniors on the other hand

Anyone under about 15 or 16 h/c has no chance.
The ones that are doing the damage with the outrageous scores are the 20 - 30 h/c mob
The over 30 h/c & there are a few are pretty genuine & are either elderly or just terrible golfers.

The h/c Committee are fully aware of the issue but seem powerless or unwilling to act.
It's got to the stage now where I believe it's just accepted that this is the new normal.
It's resulted in many of the under 20 h/c golfers only playing in the men's comps off the longer tee's.

They are certainly not powerless.

 

[Bdill93]

Ha Ha Ha!!!

A while back our Handicap Sec was playing on a day out at another club. There were another group of golfers from another club also playing the course that day.

Conversation in the bar between certain players from the "another club" went something likes this...

Chas: Hey Dave you shot 40 points today...great score...you should put that score in for your handicap.
Dave: You know what Chas, I think you are right...if I register now will you be my marker and sign for my scores when I put them in in a couple of hours or so?
Chas: Yeah no problem, let me know when done and I'll approve your round.

Our Sec did try to explain that what they were doing was not correct but I think they frankly just told him to get lost and keep his nose out.

Whilst I know this isn't right - He was only going to be submitting a good score - not falsely keeping his handicap high... (although ofc we don't know if it would make his best 8/20 SD)

I don't actually have much of an issue with that myself. For me its those who submit silly high numbers and then score low...

 

[RichA]

Whilst I know this isn't right - He was only going to be submitting a good score - not falsely keeping his handicap high... (although ofc we don't know if it would make his best 8/20 SD)

I don't actually have much of an issue with that myself. For me its those who submit silly high numbers and then score low...

I get what you're saying, he's only maintaining a vanity handicap for the benefit of his ego rather than manipulating to win. But these are the type that question other players' integrity and handicap when they get beaten by a couple of points.
It all adds to the idea that the system is flawed when it's clearly the users.

 

[clubchamp98]

Whilst I know this isn't right - He was only going to be submitting a good score - not falsely keeping his handicap high... (although ofc we don't know if it would make his best 8/20 SD)

I don't actually have much of an issue with that myself. For me its those who submit silly high numbers and then score low...

Until he gets in a comp that ballots out players with higher indexes than him.
that’s still manipulation.

 

[clubchamp98]

So it's the committee not WHS that's not working. Where I have I heard that before .

It’s the APP that lets him do this.
This in my honest opinion is the main problem.
we were assured the Comittee would have no extra workload.

 

[jim8flog]

It's only really a problem at my club in the Senior section tbh.
The Men's scores, by & large are not outrageous.
The Seniors on the other hand

Anyone under about 15 or 16 h/c has no chance.
The ones that are doing the damage with the outrageous scores are the 20 - 30 h/c mob
The over 30 h/c & there are a few are pretty genuine & are either elderly or just terrible golfers.

The h/c Committee are fully aware of the issue but seem powerless or unwilling to act.
It's got to the stage now where I believe it's just accepted that this is the new normal.
It's resulted in many of the under 20 h/c golfers only playing in the men's comps off the longer tee's.

We have divisions for Seniors (as well as club) comps
15/16 would put you in the first division for seniors comps

 

[jim8flog]

Other way round at my club.
Seniors have their own comps as well as the club-wide comps and hence submit more cards and tend to have realistic up-to-date handicaps.

Ditto to that comment. Our seniors comps are generally once a fortnight with a full field of around 100 frequently.

 

[nickjdavis]

Having played my first round in The Moray Open today I am delighted to report that my score, submitted here in Scotland by the comp organisers, automatically appears in my EG handicap record.

At least there is now a degree of interoperability between Scotland and England.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Having played my first round in The Moray Open today I am delighted to report that my score, submitted here in Scotland by the comp organisers, automatically appears in my EG handicap record.

At least there is now a degree of interoperability between Scotland and England.

Excellent. I'm playing a strokeplay open in Scotland this Wednesday so it's good to hear it's working smoothly.

 

[tobybarker]

It would depend on the Club's condition of entry.

We require a player to have 5 scores on their WHS record in the preceding calendar year to be able to enter.

how do you police that? with more than a handful of entrants that becomes a laborious task if your comp software doesnt do it for you

 

[wjemather]

how do you police that? with more than a handful of entrants that becomes a laborious task if your comp software doesnt do it for you

I expect that for most comps with such conditions, it's the responsibility of the entrant to ensure they comply and only the winners will ever be checked.

 

[rulefan]

I expect that for most comps with such conditions, it's the responsibility of the entrant to ensure they comply and only the winners will ever be checked.

And their scores will go through to the WHS for handicapping as the bar would only apply to the competition 'element'

 

[jim8flog]

how do you police that? with more than a handful of entrants that becomes a laborious task if your comp software doesnt do it for you

I am no longer involved. However if it was on an entry form one would hope it would stop those that do not from entering in the first place.

And their scores will go through to the WHS for handicapping as the bar would only apply to the competition 'element'

Our Opens are team comps.

 

[Deleted member 30522]

Not seen this guy enter any comps but he’s playing in opens

But his score reports automatically, the old system or manually reporting to your home club went years ago, pre-WHS

 

[Kennysarmy]

Nothing should be done on the basis of a solitary anecdotal report. The committee's job is to investigate, and come to a conclusion based on knowledge of the individual, their handicap record and speaking to any relevant third-parties. The measures that can be taken with respect to handicapping are numerous: handicap suspension, freeze, adjustment, etc. There are also disciplinary measure available to the club concerned, and they may wish to involve the county union.

Handicaps can be manipulated in competitions just as easily as in general play.

It really shouldn't surprise you to learn that peer-review systems are reliant on peer-review and that requires reporting of suspicious scores/activities - immature playground attitudes do not help the system to function effectively.

I've been advised (finally) that the handicap committee are reviewing his handicap!

 

[Deleted member 15717]

Thought this would go here, rather than anywhere else, but maybe a question for @wjemather and any other handicap committee folks.

Would a club representative have the ability to delete scores that have been logged via the MyEG platform when they are 100% certain that the rules have not been followed during the round of golf....

 

[doublebogey7]

Thought this would go here, rather than anywhere else, but maybe a question for @wjemather and any other handicap committee folks.

Would a club representative have the ability to delete scores that have been logged via the MyEG platform when they are 100% certain that the rules have not been followed during the round of golf....

Yes they would, there has to be some sort of check on players abusing the rules.

 

[D-S]

Thought this would go here, rather than anywhere else, but maybe a question for @wjemather and any other handicap committee folks.

Would a club representative have the ability to delete scores that have been logged via the MyEG platform when they are 100% certain that the rules have not been followed during the round of golf....

Yes. They should give their reasoning to the player if a member of their home club and if an away member contact the member’s home handicap committee.