WHS doesn't work

D

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Not a fan of comps being off different tees unless it’s mixed


The ratings and slope on a lot of courses Imo don’t always reflect the difference between the tees

Same tee for all male competitors playing within the same competition imo
 

Tashyboy

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Am gonna copy and paste this post in the “ I played today thread” basically because I was a machine. 18 points on the front nine with a stupid blob, although the ball sat at the bottom of a 300 yr old oak tree and having to knock it back 10 yd didn’t help. A Massive 23 points on the back nine gave me 41 points. At one point that was leading the comp but two bandits have come in with 42 and 44 points. 😉👍 That’s a joke to those that don’t do humour.
Anyway I went off the yellows and got most of my drives away. Well past areas where am in trouble.the odd thing was I only used my 3 wood 7 times. Normally it Could be 15 times a round. The difference between hitting a green with an iron and laying up with a 3 wood is unreal. my iron play was majestic. Had 7 pars 😳😳😳😳 and four make able putts for birdies. Missed the flippin lot.
It must of concerned our fuddle coz they docked me 2 shots off the hcap fuddle. Still smashed the back Nine and overall.
Spoke to a committee man today re the change in Comp format. He said most Clubs have reverted to this. Really😳.

Quite frankly I think the all tees one format is Rammel with a capital R. It wasn’t broke and it didn’t need fixing. It has over complicated WHS.
A WHS handicap less 95% plus score balancing will be applied to take into account different tees in use, I.e your playing handicap on the day, for competition purposes only will be adjusted as follows Black tees men+4, white tees men +3, yellow tees men +1, yellow tees ladies +7, orange tees ladies +5, red tees ladies +2, blue tees 0.Glad we have cleared that up and made it simpler. 😖 I do not know of one golfer in our fuddle of over 25 players that knows what the hell is going on.
Dr Frank Stableford must be turning in his grave.
 

Tractor Wheal

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That because it's NOT WHS's FAULT!

Handicaps over 28/36, so up to 54 came in in 2018, under UHS; WHS came in 2020!

To me, any problems are caused by inept committees who haven't adjusted, using such tools as Divisions or Handicap Limits, to the 2018 change!
So surely a competent committee would restrict competition winners to entrants that hadn't received a Playing Handicap increase of say 2 or 3 within say 6 months. It's yet more work to check, but until the soft/hard caps are lowered to 1 & 2 respectively the golfer that suffered and briefly recovers from a "temporary loss of form" will carry on cleaning up.
 
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So surely a competent committee would restrict competition winners to entrants that hadn't received a Playing Handicap increase of say 2 or 3 within say 6 months. It's yet more work to check, but until the soft/hard caps are lowered to 1 & 2 respectively the golfer that suffered and briefly recovers from a "temporary loss of form" will carry on cleaning up.
That seems a way-over-the-top way to mcro-manage comps and is unrelated to the primary focus of my post, which was about the timing of WHS as opposed to that of ultra-high handicaps! KISS methods, such as Divisions and Handicap Limits, seem far simpler and better! If there are really issues with players managing their index, there are, imo, sufficient existing facilities to identify and control offenders!
 

clubchamp98

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If there are really issues with players managing their index, there are, imo, sufficient existing facilities to identify and control offenders!
Like not letting them play in elite events with to many GP cards as EG has done.
we all know it happens in golf but to many heads in the sand.
it happens at all levels, the system is to easily abused.
 
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Like not letting them play in elite events with to many GP cards as EG has done.
we all know it happens in golf but to many heads in the sand.
it happens at all levels, the system is to easily abused.
The problem is not specific to WHS. Handicap manipulation has been an issue for ages! Remember the Trilby Tour, and other valuable prize comp, issues!
EG's GP restriction for elite events is another example of simple and sensible action.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan

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Not a fan of comps being off different tees unless it’s mixed


The ratings and slope on a lot of courses Imo don’t always reflect the difference between the tees

Same tee for all male competitors playing within the same competition imo
100% agree, as I have posted about elsewhere about my track. Most of the time the difference may be about correct, but often it is not when weather is difficult or in winter rules conditions. Or maybe it’s just me…🤔😳
 

Swango1980

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Am gonna copy and paste this post in the “ I played today thread” basically because I was a machine. 18 points on the front nine with a stupid blob, although the ball sat at the bottom of a 300 yr old oak tree and having to knock it back 10 yd didn’t help. A Massive 23 points on the back nine gave me 41 points. At one point that was leading the comp but two bandits have come in with 42 and 44 points. 😉👍 That’s a joke to those that don’t do humour.
Anyway I went off the yellows and got most of my drives away. Well past areas where am in trouble.the odd thing was I only used my 3 wood 7 times. Normally it Could be 15 times a round. The difference between hitting a green with an iron and laying up with a 3 wood is unreal. my iron play was majestic. Had 7 pars 😳😳😳😳 and four make able putts for birdies. Missed the flippin lot.
It must of concerned our fuddle coz they docked me 2 shots off the hcap fuddle. Still smashed the back Nine and overall.
Spoke to a committee man today re the change in Comp format. He said most Clubs have reverted to this. Really😳.

Quite frankly I think the all tees one format is Rammel with a capital R. It wasn’t broke and it didn’t need fixing. It has over complicated WHS.
A WHS handicap less 95% plus score balancing will be applied to take into account different tees in use, I.e your playing handicap on the day, for competition purposes only will be adjusted as follows Black tees men+4, white tees men +3, yellow tees men +1, yellow tees ladies +7, orange tees ladies +5, red tees ladies +2, blue tees 0.Glad we have cleared that up and made it simpler. 😖 I do not know of one golfer in our fuddle of over 25 players that knows what the hell is going on.
Dr Frank Stableford must be turning in his grave.
I work at a software company. When making new products, on one hand we wany to give flexibility to the user. On the other hand, we are careful not to add too many remote features that users should barely ever need. Otherwise, many users are tempted to use those features all the time, wrongly and get themselves in a mess.

WHS feels a little like that. I never remember anybody requesting different tees could be chosen in a single competition, based on what player wants. WHS allows it, and now some users (competition Committees) are implementing it frequently simply because the option exists.
 

Tashyboy

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I work at a software company. When making new products, on one hand we wany to give flexibility to the user. On the other hand, we are careful not to add too many remote features that users should barely ever need. Otherwise, many users are tempted to use those features all the time, wrongly and get themselves in a mess.

WHS feels a little like that. I never remember anybody requesting different tees could be chosen in a single competition, based on what player wants. WHS allows it, and now some users (competition Committees) are implementing it frequently simply because the option exists.
I couldn’t have put it better. I ask questions because I don’t know. I asked on here the other day how many clubs have all tees one comp format. Not many said they do. Yet a guy at our club on the committee says most clubs now do it. 😖
It had been clearly explained to me why there is different shots off different tees and like I say, with my 17.7 hcap, one week I play off whites and get 19, next week I play off yellows and get 18. But if I play in an any tees one comp it goes up to 23 whites and 20 yellows. Yet you have A WHS which should have sorted that. The mind truly boggles at the over complication of it all.
 

Swango1980

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I couldn’t have put it better. I ask questions because I don’t know. I asked on here the other day how many clubs have all tees one comp format. Not many said they do. Yet a guy at our club on the committee says most clubs now do it. 😖
It had been clearly explained to me why there is different shots off different tees and like I say, with my 17.7 hcap, one week I play off whites and get 19, next week I play off yellows and get 18. But if I play in an any tees one comp it goes up to 23 whites and 20 yellows. Yet you have A WHS which should have sorted that. The mind truly boggles at the over complication of it all.
When the chap said most clubs do it, you should ask him to name the ones he knows that do. Try and find out if he has genuinely done a bit of research, or just lazily thrown out that comment to shut you up.

You could try starting a new thread with a poll
 

Tashyboy

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When the chap said most clubs do it, you should ask him to name the ones he knows that do. Try and find out if he has genuinely done a bit of research, or just lazily thrown out that comment to shut you up.

You could try starting a new thread with a poll
How do you do a poll. Al have a look.👍
 

D-S

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I couldn’t have put it better. I ask questions because I don’t know. I asked on here the other day how many clubs have all tees one comp format. Not many said they do. Yet a guy at our club on the committee says most clubs now do it. 😖
It had been clearly explained to me why there is different shots off different tees and like I say, with my 17.7 hcap, one week I play off whites and get 19, next week I play off yellows and get 18. But if I play in an any tees one comp it goes up to 23 whites and 20 yellows. Yet you have A WHS which should have sorted that. The mind truly boggles at the over complication of it all.
I assume when CR-Par comes in your Course Handicap will reflect the differential between the tees so this will make it a bit simpler.
 

D-S

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We are running this year a low handicap (under 12 and under 15) mixed singles knockout - so far no unnatural or strange results.
 

Voyager EMH

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For these multi-tee events, it might be much simpler to implement a new format of (Score Differential - Handicap Index) to place everyone in order of success.

That way, no one is "playing off" a handicap other than their Handicap Index, but it is still a handicap or nett event.
 
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