WHS doesn't work

[Lord Tyrion]

I get what you mean, it can be death by too many rules, but surely it's just to stop a scratch player teaming up with a bunch of high-handicappers, hitting every shot himself and cleaning up the comp?

This 100%. My first ever club loved a scramble, had 3-4 a year and they were always full. The rules were simple, 4 players, 4 drives each, 2 spare. Your team captain chose the drives, after consultation, and the tactics of when to use certain drives was part of the game. In the early days, I often took the drive on the 18th as I had to get one in still. Absolutely nerve wracking, but part of it. More recent clubs I've been at require a drive from each at par 3's, again to spread the load and reduce the dominance of the better players.

Even back then, low h/c won most scrambles and the same is true now in my experience. People taking the hump over scrambles need to step back and see them for what they are, a bit of fun, a good social game.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I played with a friend at the weekend who hates WHS. He is currently on a bad run but his h/c hasn't budged yet because of the order of his good scores. 'I'd have gone up under the old system by now' came the grumble. 'Yes, by 0.1, 0.1, 0.1'. Barely makes a difference. I tried to explain that when your good scores start to drop out you will shoot up in shots, not in 0.1's but he just can't accept it

 

[Orikoru]

This 100%. My first ever club loved a scramble, had 3-4 a year and they were always full. The rules were simple, 4 players, 4 drives each, 2 spare. Your team captain chose the drives, after consultation, and the tactics of when to use certain drives was part of the game. In the early days, I often took the drive on the 18th as I had to get one in still. Absolutely nerve wracking, but part of it. More recent clubs I've been at require a drive from each at par 3's, again to spread the load and reduce the dominance of the better players.

Even back then, low h/c won most scrambles and the same is true now in my experience. People taking the hump over scrambles need to step back and see them for what they are, a bit of fun, a good social game.

At my old club I played one where they had the rule of using at least 4 drives from each player. We only had a team of 3, I was the highest handicapper in the team and the shortest hitter, so I let the other guys decide when they wanted to use one of my drives. Well, tee shots as par 3s were included - but I played poorly on those so they tended to choose the ones where I was in play on a mid-length par 4 and they were happy to try and hit the green from 160-170 yards. On the short par 4s they didn't because their length was a bigger advantage if it meant we were essentially chipping or pitching with our second shot.

At my present club, my team won a 'cross-country' scramble (where you hit over much longer made-up holes e.g. 17th tee box to the 1st green etc) - there were no rules on how many tee shots, but the equaliser was another one mentioned above - if your shot is chosen, you don't hit for the next one. Again stops your low-handicap player just playing the course himself.

 

[Orikoru]

I played with a friend at the weekend who hates WHS. He is currently on a bad run but his h/c hasn't budged yet because of the order of his good scores. 'I'd have gone up under the old system by now' came the grumble. 'Yes, by 0.1, 0.1, 0.1'. Barely makes a difference. I tried to explain that when your good scores start to drop out you will shoot up in shots, not in 0.1's but he just can't accept it

Funnily enough I have the same gripe but for the opposite reason I think. I used to prefer creeping up slowly for bad rounds, I don't like the fact that I can have a couple of average rounds and then shoot up a hole shot and a half in two weeks just because I had two good rounds 18 months ago that have dropped off. I think it's too big of an increase too quickly.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

I know some clubs have scrambles as board comps, but what are they thinking?! Scrambles are just a non-serious fun golf format, ideal for society/charity/open/fun days - anyone taking them seriously needs to be pulled to one side and given a stern taking to.

They aren’t even fun. They generally take forever because people need a 10 minute chat about angles and full shots or uphill putts being better than downhill putts. There are no rules so they’re even more open to abuse than a normal individual comp.

I’m genuinely staggered anyone takes them seriously.

They are useful for introducing juniors and beginners to competitive golf and that’s about it.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Funnily enough I have the same gripe but for the opposite reason I think. I used to prefer creeping up slowly for bad rounds, I don't like the fact that I can have a couple of average rounds and then shoot up a hole shot and a half in two weeks just because I had two good rounds 18 months ago that have dropped off. I think it's too big of an increase too quickly.

The reality is though, those 2 rounds 18 months ago bear no relevance for your golf today. I know what you are saying but it is mainly because it damages our egos. I say this as someone with a higher h/c than you and a raise hurts every time . Due to weather and holidays I only have 2 rounds in my 20 from this year. Neither are counting rounds . I still have a counting round for 2021 to come off. That can't be relevant but they have to go off something, no system is perfect.

 

[Imurg]

The reality is though, those 2 rounds 18 months ago bear no relevance for your golf today. I know what you are saying but it is mainly because it damages our egos. I say this as someone with a higher h/c than you and a raise hurts every time . Due to weather and holidays I only have 2 rounds in my 20 from this year. Neither are counting rounds . I still have a counting round for 2021 to come off. That can't be relevant but they have to go off something, no system is perfect.

My 20th score is from April 15th

 

[The Fader]

another 34 capper blitzed the field yesterday by 5 shots In a major.

That's nothing. Our Saturday Board Event was won with 52 points! New golfer with a handicap in the 40's.

I'm all for inclusivity but was a single division event and in my opinion made a mockery of an important day.

Fortunately we have a restriction of 28 - so whilst they collected the prize money they were not eligible for the Trophy or their name in gold embossed lettering on the board!

 

[Orikoru]

The reality is though, those 2 rounds 18 months ago bear no relevance for your golf today. I know what you are saying but it is mainly because it damages our egos. I say this as someone with a higher h/c than you and a raise hurts every time . Due to weather and holidays I only have 2 rounds in my 20 from this year. Neither are counting rounds . I still have a counting round for 2021 to come off. That can't be relevant but they have to go off something, no system is perfect.

Sure but that doesn't mean they should just be chopped off suddenly in one fell swoop just for the arbitrary reason that they were 21 round ago instead of 19 rounds ago. In old system they still didn't have relevance but they were gradually eased away rather instead. I guess another way of putting it might be; the intention might be to show that an 18-month-old round is not relevant anymore, but the reality is that it's saying I'm suddenly an entire shot worse than I was yesterday.

I have a good round (12.1 dif) going off next time I put a card in. I also have some more knockout matches coming up. Effectively I now have the option of putting a mediocre card in that will see me go up from 14.0 to 14.5, so potentially could result in an extra shot for the match. I don't really think that should be a possibility, and in the old system it wasn't, as you'd only go up 0.1, so unlikely to affect the number of shots.

I don't know if it's ego either, perhaps you can call it that, but I see it more as exasperation that you work hard to get your handicap down, and then in two rounds you can lose it all just like that. Whereas previously you would have earned a bit of respite.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

I played with a friend at the weekend who hates WHS. He is currently on a bad run but his h/c hasn't budged yet because of the order of his good scores. 'I'd have gone up under the old system by now' came the grumble. 'Yes, by 0.1, 0.1, 0.1'. Barely makes a difference. I tried to explain that when your good scores start to drop out you will shoot up in shots, not in 0.1's but he just can't accept it

I think this is where a few golfers can't get their heads round the WHS
They think because of a bad round or a couple of bad rounds they should have a higher handicap or the opposite a good round where everything goes in they are a better player.
These rounds don't make your handicap/ability any different to how it was before these rounds, but WHS over 20 rounds is a lot closer to where you are ability wise

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I played with a friend at the weekend who hates WHS. He is currently on a bad run but his h/c hasn't budged yet because of the order of his good scores. 'I'd have gone up under the old system by now' came the grumble. 'Yes, by 0.1, 0.1, 0.1'. Barely makes a difference. I tried to explain that when your good scores start to drop out you will shoot up in shots, not in 0.1's but he just can't accept it

What’s quite possibly going to happen to me. Got three ‘non-counters’ next up and no matter how bad I score my HI won’t budge. But I have then got a string of really good counting differentials and if I score as poorly as of late then my HI will go up a lot and very rapidly (I don’t have many ‘nearly counters‘ in my current 20).

As I want to keep my HI around what it currently is, I need to really focus on getting the ball round in decent scores - not trying anything really risky or silly.

Its actually not difficult to understand…what makes it difficult for some is that they don’t accept how it works, and often feign confusion over why their handicap isn’t going up.

 

[Alan Clifford]

I used to like Scrambles when they first become popular, It was a group of 3 or 4 trying to get a ball round in the lowest score possible and having a bit of fun along they way.

Now it's turn up, can't use your drive here, we have to use Bert's drive here because it's the best one he's hit in the last 4 holes, even though it's only 100 yards off the tee in the rough, come the last 6 holes, you don't even get to hit a drive because your quota has been used. Some rules don't even let you hit on the last par 3's if you have used your par 3 shot(s) earlier, and now for some reason the 'Can't hit the second shot if it's your Drive' has crept in, what utter nonsense.

Give me a proper no holds barred Texas Scramble any day for a bit of fun, and I don't care if I've come first or last, we've scored the best we can

That's fair enough. I used to like playing in scrambles that required each person to have some tee shots - it adds another strategy dimension to the game. Early on, you might decide to take a drive which is not the best for that hole. But there is no reason why a club couldn't have both styles on different days - they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I don't know if it's ego either, perhaps you can call it that, but I see it more as exasperation that you work hard to get your handicap down, and then in two rounds you can lose it all just like that. Whereas previously you would have earned a bit of respite.

Look at it the other way, 2 good rounds and your handicap can drop by a chunk

 

[Lord Tyrion]

My 20th score is from April 15th

You clearly get better value for your membership than I do

 

[Orikoru]

Look at it the other way, 2 good rounds and your handicap can drop by a chunk

But that was always true before!

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Don’t look at your counting scores.
Then you don’t need to think about them!

Without looking, I honestly couldn’t tell you what the next score to fall off my record is. And I don’t care as it has absolutely no baring on how I play my next round.

 

[Orikoru]

You clearly get better value for your membership than I do

18 months was exaggeration for me as it turns out, my 20th round is from May 7th last year. So more like 12-13 months. The fact is from October to March though I don't put a single card in because there's absolutely no point when the course is either frozen or a mudbath.

 

[Alan Clifford]

Sure but that doesn't mean they should just be chopped off suddenly in one fell swoop just for the arbitrary reason that they were 21 round ago instead of 19 rounds ago. In old system they still didn't have relevance but they were gradually eased away rather instead. I guess another way of putting it might be; the intention might be to show that an 18-month-old round is not relevant anymore, but the reality is that it's saying I'm suddenly an entire shot worse than I was yesterday.

I have a good round (12.1 dif) going off next time I put a card in. I also have some more knockout matches coming up. Effectively I now have the option of putting a mediocre card in that will see me go up from 14.0 to 14.5, so potentially could result in an extra shot for the match. I don't really think that should be a possibility, and in the old system it wasn't, as you'd only go up 0.1, so unlikely to affect the number of shots.

I don't know if it's ego either, perhaps you can call it that, but I see it more as exasperation that you work hard to get your handicap down, and then in two rounds you can lose it all just like that. Whereas previously you would have earned a bit of respite.

Put in a card, take the extra shot. That's how it works these days.
I never liked the averaging system when I had an American style handicap in Barbados before WHS. Still don't like it. On the other hand, I thought the old CONGU system of only +0.1 if you had a very bad round (nothing for a mere bad round for us high handicappers) was a tad harsh. It's a shame WHS missed the opportunity to introduce a decaying algorithm.

 

[Alan Clifford]

My 20th score is from April 15th

Mine is 3rd April. But they are mostly 9 holers.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

But that was always true before!

Is the glass always half empty with you