WHS doesn't work

[RichA]

Our course is odd.
Off the white tees, it's a par 71. The 18th hole is a 464 yard par 4.
While the tees are all now non-gender specific, it hasn't been reviewed since the red tees were rated as ladies tees, so the 18th off the reds is a 429 yard par 5 and the course is par 72, even though it's 800 yards shorter.
Obviously the slope and course rating sort it all out, but it still looks strange on the scorecard.

 

[jim8flog]

I am loving the WHS in one respect.

I have gone up 3 shots in 3 months. Something that would never have happened with the UHS without requesting a review.

 

[Whereditgo]

I think the colour coding probably has to be changed for that to genuinely happen. Red tees have too much of a stigma attached to them. Change the colours and call them competition tees, standard and ........ can't think of something suitable, short doesn't sit right. Anyway, you're right so we need to do a fundamental change.

Just use the system they do in Europe - tee's marked 56 are 5,600m, tee's marked 62 are 6,200m etc.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I am loving the WHS in one respect.

I have gone up 3 shots in 3 months. Something that would never have happened with the UHS without requesting a review.

My next three rounds dropping from my 20 are non-counters, but then I have a string of goodies. Could see my handicap index climb rather a lot rather rapidly.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yep, mine is the same for me.
Par 70 off both tees, but I need to shoot 2 shots lower off the yellows to achieve the same score differential.
There are two par-4s where I can hit driver off the tee on the whites, go over some trees and cut the corner a bit.
Off the yellows I am too near the trees to get over them with a driver, need a more lofted club and don't get as far down the fairway as from the whites.
But the Course Rating takes account of the shorter distance of the hole.
Our shortest par-4 I have a favourite place on the fairway to aim for with an iron from the tee. Off the yellows I still want to be in that same place so I take a shorter iron.
Not much difference to me that the hole is shorter.

The overall shorter distance from the yellows makes it somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 less than the whites for me and the way I play, but not 1.9 which the CR and SR make it.
For me the yellows is more difficult. If I played all my qualifiers from the yellows, I think my HI would be higher.

We have only one fairway bunker - to catch a second shot on a par 5.
There are bunkers at driving distance on some holes, but they are in the rough.

I don't get any shots off either tees, I merely make a gross score, and thus a score differential. I think everybody does this.

I get shots relative to other players when playing with and against those other players.

What you describe is very similar to my place, and off Yellows I also have to play two shots lower to achieve the same differential, and I find that difficult. And so the BIB is exactly what I feel.

Does this mean that those whose play mostly off Yellows have a HI higher than had they played off Whites? Seems it could be the case. And so what does that mean when they play someone whose HI is built off playing off Whites.

I might suggest that playing to 7 rather than 9 is harder than playing to, say, 21 rather than 23

 

[Orikoru]

I think the colour coding probably has to be changed for that to genuinely happen. Red tees have too much of a stigma attached to them. Change the colours and call them competition tees, standard and ........ can't think of something suitable, short doesn't sit right. Anyway, you're right so we need to do a fundamental change.

I think the approved lingo is 'forward' tees.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Today the club had a Texas Scramble

I’m firmly in the belief that the current allowances favour teams with Mid HC and above

All our scrambles have been won by those type of teams

Today

A team of low handicaps and one 11 handicap went round in 15 under gross

A team of mid to high handicaps went round 12 under gross

The second team won the scramble with a net 24 under !! - a clear 3 shots ahead of the next best team

I suspect we will start to see the low handicap teams just not bother entering anymore

Time we binned off the allowances and went back to 15% combined

 

[Voyager EMH]

Today the club had a Texas Scramble

I’m firmly in the belief that the current allowances favour teams with Mid HC and above

All our scrambles have been won by those type of teams

Today

A team of low handicaps and one 11 handicap went round in 15 under gross

A team of mid to high handicaps went round 12 under gross

The second team won the scramble with a net 24 under !! - a clear 3 shots ahead of the next best team

I suspect we will start to see the low handicap teams just not bother entering anymore

Time we binned off the allowances and went back to 15% combined

Our club has come up with two good things that seem to level the playing field a bit with Texas scrambles.
1. Minimum of 4 tee-shots for each player.
2. Each player must have one par-3 tee shot.

Puts some under pressure over the closing holes.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Our club has come up with two good things that seem to level the playing field a bit with Texas scrambles.
1. Minimum of 4 tee-shots for each player.
2. Each player must have one par-3 tee shot.

Puts some under pressure over the closing holes.

I think the Minimum tee-shots and other specific limiting rules, further hinders teams with low handicappers

 

[Backsticks]

I think the Minimum tee-shots and other specific limiting rules, further hinders teams with low handicappers

It does, but its still a good rule, just not a fix for the bias favouring high hcs. Its not that much fun playing a scramble when you have a scratch or plus with you - you just have him hit his drive, and all walk on knowing it just cant be bettered by the team.

 

[Wabinez]

different things affect different clubs. My place, the scrambles are traditionally won by the low handicap sides. hell, I have been on the winning side a few times since WHS, and our team might only get 1 shot total

 

[AussieKB]

Big differnce now is when you can put 40-54 handicappers in your team, specially if they do not have to contribute any drives to count, they can just walk around with a putter and a couple of clubs.

 

[nickjdavis]

Our scrambles are all 3 ball scrambles and we insist on 6 tee shots per player. Requiring a minimum number of tee shots puts the pressure on any higher handicap teams/players who might not be so strong off the tee. If you are down to the last 4 or 5 holes and one player still has to take 3 tee shots then he is far more likely to feel the pressure if he is a higher handicapper than a low guy.

 

[clubchamp98]

Today the club had a Texas Scramble

I’m firmly in the belief that the current allowances favour teams with Mid HC and above

All our scrambles have been won by those type of teams

Today

A team of low handicaps and one 11 handicap went round in 15 under gross

A team of mid to high handicaps went round 12 under gross

The second team won the scramble with a net 24 under !! - a clear 3 shots ahead of the next best team

I suspect we will start to see the low handicap teams just not bother entering anymore

Time we binned off the allowances and went back to 15% combined

Our low guys are already missing these and Stableford as well.
another 34 capper blitzed the field yesterday by 5 shots In a major.
course was set up as difficult as it comes.

 

[Wabinez]

another 34 capper blitzed the field yesterday by 5 shots In a major.

Maybe your club should be imposing handicap limits on 'major' or board competitions. Even my place has a restriction to say playing handicaps are restricted to 20 and below for men, and 36 for ladies. By all means enter if you are higher, but you'll play off 20 in the competition.

 

[Backsticks]

Maybe your club should be imposing handicap limits on 'major' or board competitions. Even my place has a restriction to say playing handicaps are restricted to 20 and below for men, and 36 for ladies. By all means enter if you are higher, but you'll play off 20 in the competition.

The by-all-means-enter is worth nothing though. Its just deceitful exclusion.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

Our scrambles are all 3 ball scrambles and we insist on 6 tee shots per player. Requiring a minimum number of tee shots puts the pressure on any higher handicap teams/players who might not be so strong off the tee. If you are down to the last 4 or 5 holes and one player still has to take 3 tee shots then he is far more likely to feel the pressure if he is a higher handicapper than a low guy.

I used to like Scrambles when they first become popular, It was a group of 3 or 4 trying to get a ball round in the lowest score possible and having a bit of fun along they way.

Now it's turn up, can't use your drive here, we have to use Bert's drive here because it's the best one he's hit in the last 4 holes, even though it's only 100 yards off the tee in the rough, come the last 6 holes, you don't even get to hit a drive because your quota has been used. Some rules don't even let you hit on the last par 3's if you have used your par 3 shot(s) earlier, and now for some reason the 'Can't hit the second shot if it's your Drive' has crept in, what utter nonsense.

Give me a proper no holds barred Texas Scramble any day for a bit of fun, and I don't care if I've come first or last, we've scored the best we can

 

[Backsticks]

Scrambles are just another victim of the misguided , lets blow off the roof of handicaps limits, that is ruining handicap golf.

Its idealism, wokism, inclusivity first, and whether it makes sense, not even second.

 

[wjemather]

I know some clubs have scrambles as board comps, but what are they thinking?! Scrambles are just a non-serious fun golf format, ideal for society/charity/open/fun days - anyone taking them seriously needs to be pulled to one side and given a stern taking to.

 

[Orikoru]

I used to like Scrambles when they first become popular, It was a group of 3 or 4 trying to get a ball round in the lowest score possible and having a bit of fun along they way.

Now it's turn up, can't use your drive here, we have to use Bert's drive here because it's the best one he's hit in the last 4 holes, even though it's only 100 yards off the tee in the rough, come the last 6 holes, you don't even get to hit a drive because your quota has been used. Some rules don't even let you hit on the last par 3's if you have used your par 3 shot(s) earlier, and now for some reason the 'Can't hit the second shot if it's your Drive' has crept in, what utter nonsense.

Give me a proper no holds barred Texas Scramble any day for a bit of fun, and I don't care if I've come first or last, we've scored the best we can

I get what you mean, it can be death by too many rules, but surely it's just to stop a scratch player teaming up with a bunch of high-handicappers, hitting every shot himself and cleaning up the comp?