Whites v Yellows

[rulefan]

121 to 126, which equates to 1.4 shots on the Course Rating. I'd fancy my chances much more off 11 from the yellows than 12 off the whites.

Which is yellow/white?
What is CR/Slope for the white and CR/Slope for the Yellow and what is the HI you are starting from?

 

[Oddsocks]

I've played off whites for my last three rounds. Good god, the difference is huge. I get ONE extra shot off whites, ONE. I can assure you I need one on the sixth, a monster 240 yard par three, so that's driver off the tee to anywhere. I need, one on the 10th, huge dog leg left where my drive, off white does get anywhere near the corner and the second shot is 220+. I need one on the 17th where today it was a well struck drive and a three wood to get within 30 meters of the green. One shot my eye! I will be playing most of my Monday knocks off whites for now on to get my H/C up to where it should be for the white tees.

Or continue to play off the yellows but on holes where you would use longer clubs (p4/p5), adjust your club according.

For example if you 10th is 220 to the corner off the whites but 180 off the yellows, hit your 180 club so the approach is the same in every week.

At my old club we would play all games from the whites were out, where members went wrong was taking lines that you could never take when on the forward tees. The 1st a dog leg right off the whites was 230/240 to the corner and then 180-210 in depending on what side of the fairway you finished. During winter months members would cut the corner off the yellows forward and then hit an 130-140 yard approach. Why… you’d never play that shot?

In prep for a good 2014 throughout the winter I would still play to the same corner and play the same approach in. If the wind was behind it could be a 5/4i, into the wind it could be a 3w, but I played the same approach shot every week so I wasn’t phased by it when the tees went back

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Because I need to be two shots better for my round to achieve virtually the same handicap score.

All the theorising you have done about hazards and the like have only a tiny difference to me.

Playing an eight iron to two or three greens rather than a seven iron makes hardly any difference to me.

Two of the par-4s on the back nine have trees I can easily clear off the whites and cut the corner of the dogleg, but the yellows bring me closer to the trees and a driver shot will not reach enough height quickly enough. I have to hit a shorter tee shot to the side of the trees, a driver on that line will run out of fairway, leaving me a longer shot in, or hit a 5-wood over the trees which will still be shorter than a driver from the whites.

A lot of swings and roundabouts for me making little or no discernible difference overall to how I play the course and my score.

Exactly my feelings.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

So, it isn't technically harder, rather you believe the course rating is too low relative to whites.

I've no doubt this is bound to be true in many cases when you focus on an individual golfer. After all, we all have our own strengths and weaknesses.

I struggle to understand why, in practice, off yellows my course is CR 70 off yellows and (effectively) 72 off whites against a par of 72 for both. On a round by round basis I don't score 2 shots lower off yellows...pretty much the same in fact...so I avoid playing off yellows. I don't see the point.

 

[Swango1980]

I struggle to understand why, in practice, off yellows my course is CR 70 off yellows and (effectively) 72 off whites against a par of 72 for both. On a round by round basis I don't score 2 shots lower off yellows...pretty much the same in fact...so I avoid playing off yellows. I don't see the point.

I can't speak for your course. At my old course the gab between whites and yellows was about the same (just over 2). However, it felt right.

The 1st drive turned from a 80 yard carry over water to about 160 yards (still not long, but usually into strong wind and danger left and right).

3rd and 4th went from easy drives over bunkers into wide fairways, to very difficult to clear bunkers unless you could carry it 240+ (most club golfers could not).

6th went from about a 540 to 580 par 5 up hill.

12th and 15th went from around 370 yards par 4s to 440 yards, and both required 210 yard carry over dykes off whites (both became par 5's effectively for most, even though still par 4 on the card).

So, with such differences, you can appreciate why the whites would be a lot harder. At my new course the gab is less than 1 shot, which makes sense as whites make little difference in most holes, except it makes one par 3 a lot trickier and a few par 4's are a reasonable amount longer, but not scary longer.

 

[rulefan]

I struggle to understand why, in practice, off yellows my course is CR 70 off yellows and (effectively) 72 off whites against a par of 72 for both. On a round by round basis I don't score 2 shots lower off yellows...pretty much the same in fact...so I avoid playing off yellows. I don't see the point.

Remember, depending on your HI the slope can make a difference to your relative scoring. Shouldn't your Score Differential always be about the same whichever tees you play

 

[Maninblack4612]

Which is yellow/white?
What is CR/Slope for the white and CR/Slope for the Yellow and what is the HI you are starting from?

CR & slope for white is 70.9 / 126 & 69.5 / 121 for yellows. HI is 10.4, but its not just me, its the other low handicappers who have made their reductions on the short course.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Remember, depending on your HI the slope can make a difference to your relative scoring. Shouldn't your Score Differential always be about the same whichever tees you play

Slope 125 is same for yellows cr 70, and whites cr 71.6. It may that at the moment I have not a lot of consistency in my game and once it settles down I will be ok playing to cr 70 again at par 72. May simply also be that I am not used to playing casual rounds where cr is less than par (or back in day one with CSS less than par) and the round counts to my handicap.

 

[rulefan]

Slope 125 is same for yellows cr 70, and whites cr 71.6. It may that at the moment I have not a lot of consistency in my game and once it settles down I will be ok playing to cr 70 again at par 72. May simply also be that I am not used to playing casual rounds where cr is less than par (or back in day one with CSS less than par) and the round counts to my handicap.

Just curious but what exactly is the relevance of par?

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Just curious but what exactly is the relevance of par?

Psychological...CR 70 v Par 72, thinking he has to save 2 shots before he starts just like it always was off those tees with SSS.

Bit between the ears is golfers worst enemy.

 

[wjemather]

CR & slope for white is 70.9 / 126 & 69.5 / 121 for yellows. HI is 10.4, but its not just me, its the other low handicappers who have made their reductions on the short course.

I've looked through the handicap records of a few members at South Shields with low-ish indexes, and (in isolation) cannot see anything to support this - counting scores from yellow and white tees appear to be in proportion to the rounds played from those tees, and the range of score differentials do not appear to be significantly different between tees.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just curious but what exactly is the relevance of par?

No relevance whatsoever in respect of my HI - but as said by @s_p it's of relevance to how I view my round on a hole-by-hole basis. I know when off yellows that somewhere along the line I have to pick up two shots against par that I don't when playing off whites.

 

[PJ87]

Our whites make 3 of the long Ish par 3s that bit longer and the 600 yard par 5 becomes 640

But those are fine

It's the 16th that annoys me

386 off yellows off whites 443

 

[wjemather]

Psychological...CR 70 v Par 72, thinking he has to save 2 shots before he starts just like it always was off those tees with SSS.

Bit between the ears is golfers worst enemy.

Indeed. Par is a largely arbitrary number that many still consider to be the good or target score for a scratch golfer (even though it hasn't been that way since the standard scratch score was introduced about 100 years ago) or their "to handicap" nett score (36 points). The result is commonly unrealistic targets and expectations for scoring (and flawed perceptions about handicapping).

 

[Crazyface]

From memory youre a member at Styal aren't you?

The CR off the yellows is 68.5 and 71.2 off the whites.

So for handicap purposes you get an extra 2.7 shots off the whites anyway.

If only!!!! Nope, only one according to the big list on the starters hut. BUT, 2.7 is most definately needed !

 

[Crazyface]

I can flick the ball round at Styal off yellows, sometimes making the game look easy, but it's hell off whites. Some of the white tees are not just a bit back from the yellows, on the same teeing ground, but miles away on a different and much further back, teeing area. The 10th is an impossible par four for me and I hit, on a good day, 240 yards and that don't make the dog leg! My next two rounds will be played off whites, as the last two in my 20 are counting rounds. This will move my H/C back to where it should be to be able to play off whites and therefore be competitive in the KO rounds, like I was last year.

 

[PJ87]

very confused after the last email from the club (in a good way)

we are moving to

Black, White and Yellow for men (doesnt mention ladies)

yellows is the old reds, whites the yellows and black the whites

Blacks are called "championship tees" 7,122 Yards
Whites are called "members tees" 6,633 Yards
Yellows are called "tees of the day" 6,187 Yards

now I wonder if the guests will then just play off yellows as we get complaints we are too long and too difficult

our comps are moving to the whites (from the whites) but to the new whites.. thats where im confused ... are we off the old yellows in comps now? if so yes please.

 

[Swango1980]

very confused after the last email from the club (in a good way)

we are moving to

Black, White and Yellow for men (doesnt mention ladies)

yellows is the old reds, whites the yellows and black the whites

Blacks are called "championship tees" 7,122 Yards
Whites are called "members tees" 6,633 Yards
Yellows are called "tees of the day" 6,187 Yards

now I wonder if the guests will then just play off yellows as we get complaints we are too long and too difficult

our comps are moving to the whites (from the whites) but to the new whites.. thats where im confused ... are we off the old yellows in comps now? if so yes please.

What competitions will be off the blacks?

 

[PJ87]

What competitions will be off the blacks?

Not sure yet, hasnt been confirmed.. mayb club championship? or just when we host events like the local PGA comp as we are a "championship" course

 

[PJ87]

What competitions will be off the blacks?

Good afternoon all,
From the first tee time this Friday (27th May) , we will be implementing new coloured ‘Tee Sets’ to the Championship North East Course giving us the option of playing the course at 3 different lengths.

• BLACK (Championship) 7,122 Yards
• WHITE (Members) 6,633 Yards
• YELLOW (Tee’s of the Day) 6,187 Yards

As members you may play off any tee position you choose for ‘General Play’.
This change gives us the addition of a fully measured / rated ‘shorter course’ to enjoy.
We hope you take the opportunity to experience the ‘shorter course’… playing holes from different views, distances, approaches even if our ‘shorter course’ at 6,187 yards is still longer than many of the local courses from their ‘back tees’.
Next time you come play you will notice…

• New tri-fold scorecards are available from reception / marshal hut
• Tee yardage marker boards at each hole have been updated
• Permanent tee yardage markers have been replaced
• Daily tee markers re-coloured
• England Golf and Intelligent Golf course information has been updated to reflect change

Every effort has been made to coordinate all these changes to work together from Friday, but please bear with us if we experience any teething problems. we will look to rectify at the earliest opportunity.
One additional change: The stroke Index on Hole 10 is now 16, and Hole 11 is now 10.


this is all i know atm but my mates on the committee so when he finishes work i can ask