Whites v Yellows

[wjemather]

To judge whether you are 'playing to handicap' though, you need to know the average of your last 20 rounds, not just the best 8. I doubt anyone bother working that number out. Or do they ?

No you don't - the 12 non-counting scores have nothing to do with your handicap or playing to it. All you need to know is what score is needed (gross/nett/Stableford) in order to play to your Course Handicap; i.e.

• Course Rating + Course Handicap for gross
• Course Rating for nett
• 36 – (Course Rating – Par) for Stableford.

 

[Orikoru]

This debate is starting to move to the gross v nett debate.

In my mind I think gross, in terms of pars, birdies, bogeys etc. Overall, at the end of a round I think to myself in how many over par I finished. I wouldn't ever think of it as a differential of 2.7 because that's not a real number, I didn't score 0.7 of a shot.

People who think in stableford points are thinking nett. Handicap doesn't represent how many shots I took and how well I performed, because it changes constantly (and is much more volatile since WHS). The fact is I scored 4 on a hole which is a par. Maybe that's 2 points, or is it 3 points because last week a good score dropped off my 20 so my handicap index increased by 0.2 which means my competition handicap incresed by 1 and now I get a shot at the SI4 3rd hole which I never have done before. What a complicated way to say I made par.

I think generally you see a divide based on ability. Low / single figure players seem to think in gross since they don't get that many shots to play with anyway. Whereas bogey golfers who get shots on the majority of holes tend to think more in Stableford terms I think - because the focus is more on beating your handicap rather than getting as close to par as possible. Makes sense if you think of it that way I reckon.

 

[Imurg]

I think a lot of people are over-thinking this one and making it waaaaay more complicated than it needs to be....

 

[Springveldt]

I don't think so.
I think that I have lived in golf-scoring-land for a very long time.
When I started playing, people might keep a mental tally of how many over or under 5s they were or merely how many over par they were.
Hardly anyone thought in stableford terms, because it was hardly ever played. In my experience, stableford became popular in the 1990s about halfway through my golfing life.
My "little chart" just formed in my head as I became aware of how the new system works. I did not set out to memorise it, but now I have and I find it useful. There was a bit of a pattern of steps going up by 0.8 and 0.9 and recognising patterns is what number geeks like me do, so the numbers just stuck.
Like I said previously, you think how you want to and according to what suits you. That's entirely up to you and I won't criticise you for doing so.
I like to point out that there are alternative ways of thinking.
I'm not saying that my way is better, just different from what has become a popular way of thinking in the last 25 years or so in this country.
I wonder what we all would be doing if stableford had never been invented?
It was actually very unpopular for a long while.
The main criticism being that not counting some of your bad shots was daft. (lower handicappers' gripe)
The second biggest criticism was that 7/8 allowance means higher handicaps lose a shot and lower handicaps do not. (higher handicappers' gripe)

I played golf as a kid and when I was going round I'd count my score against straight 5's. Then as I got better I'd start counting how many over par I was. I gave up the game around 1990-91 (was still a junior then) and didn't join a club again until 2016 and in my first comp it was Stableford and I had to ask my playing partners what it was and why the hell weren't we counting all our shots and not holing out putts.

My brother up in Scotland was bemused at the amount of Stableford comps we have at my club and asked "Are they scared to count up their score down there or something?" So even although most comps are Stableford, in my head I still count my score against par while playing but at the end I look at my differential. I know that nearly all of my counting scores are in the +6 to +9 range compared to par so that's what I'm looking to shoot to maintain my handicap.

 

[Oscar Cox]

I've played off whites for my last three rounds. Good god, the difference is huge. I get ONE extra shot off whites, ONE. I can assure you I need one on the sixth, a monster 240 yard par three, so that's driver off the tee to anywhere. I need, one on the 10th, huge dog leg left where my drive, off white does get anywhere near the corner and the second shot is 220+. I need one on the 17th where today it was a well struck drive and a three wood to get within 30 meters of the green. One shot my eye! I will be playing most of my Monday knocks off whites for now on to get my H/C up to where it should be for the white tees.

i don’t think your cunning plan will be entirely effective. Sure, you can’t get up in two on the 17th off the whites, but you’re playing a short pitch for your third, whereas presumably you’ve got a longish iron for your second off the yellows; so you’ve got a chance of 4 and reasonably solid 5 off white, and no guaranteed 4 off yellow - i.e. much less than a full shot difference over time (unless your long irons are superb or your short game is terrible).

 

[Springveldt]

This isn't right. What about PCC?

What about it? It's always zero, isn't it?

 

[Crazyface]

i don’t think your cunning plan will be entirely effective. Sure, you can’t get up in two on the 17th off the whites, but you’re playing a short pitch for your third, whereas presumably you’ve got a longish iron for your second off the yellows; so you’ve got a chance of 4 and reasonably solid 5 off white, and no guaranteed 4 off yellow - i.e. much less than a full shot difference over time (unless your long irons are superb or your short game is terrible).

On our 17th off yellows it's a drive and a 8/9 depending how much trouble I'm in. Off whites it's a testing drive through a narrow gap, and there used to be a big tree in the way as well, the stump is still there, lord knows how they coped then, then a three wood. If I managed a straight drive then it would be maybe a 5 iron, which could go anywhere. What I'm doing off 12.7 I'll never know, well I do, most good scores have been done off yellows in hard ground conditions so an extra 10 yards+ so making most par fours a nice easy 9 or PW in. The 5th is a dinky little 54 deg wedge. Off whites? a 9 over piggin trees. The whole thing is a much harder prospect

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Every time I play I know my CH so when I am done with my round I add up my gross and I know whether or not I have played above; below, or to my handicap. For me it’s as simple as that.

 

[Voyager EMH]

"I'm playing off whites today so I must remember that I get a shot on the 8th where I did not get a shot yesterday off the yellows. If I don't remember then my stableford scoring will be wrong"
"I got used to getting 3 shots all winter off the yellows, now my HI has gone up a bit and I'm getting 5 shots off the whites and I must remember the two holes where I get the extra shots"

That would be my thinking if I had remained a "stableford thinker" as I was for about 20 years. I do not need "stableford thinking" to be explained to me.
It requires that you create little mental charts of where you get shots and where you do not. It is fairly complicated, but you can get used to it if you try.

If a 17-handicapper and a 7-handicapper both shoot 80 (adjusted gross), then their differentials will be the same. It does not vary (given no PCC) and is not complicated. It is just a number.
Each (adjusted) gross score has a differential - it does - it exists - it is not complicated - it is your handicap score.

 

[sunshine]

What about it? It's always zero, isn't it?

Haha!
Although PCC has been 2 for my last two rounds!

 

[sunshine]

All you need to know is what score is needed (gross/nett/Stableford) in order to play to your Course Handicap; i.e.

• Course Rating + Course Handicap for gross
• Course Rating for nett
• 36 – (Course Rating – Par) for Stableford.

Or, all you need to know is the number of strokes you took Don't understand why it's so complicated

 

[sunshine]

I think generally you see a divide based on ability. Low / single figure players seem to think in gross since they don't get that many shots to play with anyway. Whereas bogey golfers who get shots on the majority of holes tend to think more in Stableford terms I think - because the focus is more on beating your handicap rather than getting as close to par as possible. Makes sense if you think of it that way I reckon.

I dunno.
As a beginner, my mates and I just used to count scores and be happy to break 100. Actually we just wanted to beat each other, whether that meant scoring 105 v 108.

 

[wjemather]

Or, all you need to know is the number of strokes you took Don't understand why it's so complicated

That wouldn't tell you anything about your performance (in relation to par, scratch, or handicap) though.

 

[Orikoru]

I dunno.
As a beginner, my mates and I just used to count scores and be happy to break 100. Actually we just wanted to beat each other, whether that meant scoring 105 v 108.

I guess, but I also CBA putting out or watching others putt out for 8, 9 or 10 so Stableford has its other advantages. Pick it up and move on.

 

[RRidges]

On our 17th off yellows it's a drive and a 8/9 depending how much trouble I'm in. Off whites it's a testing drive through a narrow gap, and there used to be a big tree in the way as well, the stump is still there, lord knows how they coped then, then a three wood. If I managed a straight drive then it would be maybe a 5 iron, which could go anywhere. What I'm doing off 12.7 I'll never know, well I do, most good scores have been done off yellows in hard ground conditions so an extra 10 yards+ so making most par fours a nice easy 9 or PW in. The 5th is a dinky little 54 deg wedge. Off whites? a 9 over piggin trees. The whole thing is a much harder prospect

Or you could use one of the 3 shots that you get compared to Yellows and play it as a par 5, hoping for a 4 from the shortish pitch. But that, and similar strategy on the 2 other holes that are made most difficult by the increased length of white tees, is probably far too sensible! Still worth having a go in non-counting rounds though.

 

[Slab]

On our 17th off yellows it's a drive and a 8/9 depending how much trouble I'm in. Off whites it's a testing drive through a narrow gap, and there used to be a big tree in the way as well, the stump is still there, lord knows how they coped then, then a three wood. If I managed a straight drive then it would be maybe a 5 iron, which could go anywhere. What I'm doing off 12.7 I'll never know, well I do, most good scores have been done off yellows in hard ground conditions so an extra 10 yards+ so making most par fours a nice easy 9 or PW in. The 5th is a dinky little 54 deg wedge. Off whites? a 9 over piggin trees. The whole thing is a much harder prospect

I’ve been struggling to understand the thread until this post clears up a couple of things. You mostly play yellows and your HI is mainly made up with good scores from those tees.

I had a look at the scorecard and while I’m sure the course has its challenges and defenses its certainly not length. By modern standards that’s a pretty compact course and as you say, off the yellows even a short hitter will be using shorter irons into what looks like nine of the par 4’s and maybe only a wedge for someone that drives it your distance. That’s at least half the round made completely reachable in regulation using short scoring clubs!

That’s gotta result in loads of completely doable par chances every time you go round & throwing up birdie putts every round too, and I bet its loads of fun
The ‘tough’ holes you mention when off the whites (which lets face it is still not near a long course) you need to change your mindset on those holes
i.e on 17 you’re so used to having your 2nd shot being a 100yrds into the stroke index 6 when actually that’s pretty ridiculous (yes I know hole index isn’t all about difficulty, but the index’s must be based on the white tees)

I’d say (just based on scorecard) its not that your whites are too difficult, its that the yellows are too 'easy'

(again I'm sure the course has its challenges/hazards etc but it shouldn't take long to learn how to course manage round those and when you do, suddenly there's a very short course open to good scoring)

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Every time I play I know my CH so when I am done with my round I add up my gross and I know whether or not I have played above; below, or to my handicap. For me it’s as simple as that.

I’ll add…I know the CR as well as my CH. Add up my gross…and the difference between gross-CR and CH is close enough for me.

 

[PJ87]

Played with a guy yesterday who is very old school in his thinking.

Now he always plays black tees (our former whites) we let a group through they went whites (former yellows)

Both single figure golfers hit beautiful drives well down by the green. He remarked "well they are off the junior tees"

He's a decent standard mainly down to his short game .. but his long game his drives were constantly shorter than mine (and I'm a short 220) his second shot was always a 5 wood with then a chip and 1-2 putts

It's so engrained in his mind that it's the only way to play that he won't consider playing whites and having that drive then maybe his 5 wood then reaches and those 1-2 putts are birdie and par rather than par and bogey

Madness

Lovely guy tho just sometimes you think people love punishing themselves