Whites v Yellows

[Voyager EMH]

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land sometimes - I can well imagine people creating little charts of score differentials, yeah. People think in Stableford points because it's easier to track how you're doing one hole at a time. i.e. 2 points and you're on track, 3 points and you're one ahead etc. No different to how a PGA leaderboard shows that so-and-so is 5 under par for so many holes, it's just a quick indicator.

Don't know if it's just me but I don't add my gross score up as I go along - don't have enough fingers and toes for that! I just know if I've got mostly '2s & 3s' in Stableford terms I'm doing well, if it's more '1s & 2s' then I'm not doing so well. The only change I probably will have to make to my thinking is to start remembering that 36 points off the yellows won't be good enough for handicap purposes, I'll need 39 points or something, whereas off the whites it's probably 37 or 38 points roughly. I can think of that way but there's zero chance I'm going to start thinking about what differential I'm on when I'm half-way round.

I don't think so.
I think that I have lived in golf-scoring-land for a very long time.
When I started playing, people might keep a mental tally of how many over or under 5s they were or merely how many over par they were.
Hardly anyone thought in stableford terms, because it was hardly ever played. In my experience, stableford became popular in the 1990s about halfway through my golfing life.
My "little chart" just formed in my head as I became aware of how the new system works. I did not set out to memorise it, but now I have and I find it useful. There was a bit of a pattern of steps going up by 0.8 and 0.9 and recognising patterns is what number geeks like me do, so the numbers just stuck.
Like I said previously, you think how you want to and according to what suits you. That's entirely up to you and I won't criticise you for doing so.
I like to point out that there are alternative ways of thinking.
I'm not saying that my way is better, just different from what has become a popular way of thinking in the last 25 years or so in this country.
I wonder what we all would be doing if stableford had never been invented?
It was actually very unpopular for a long while.
The main criticism being that not counting some of your bad shots was daft. (lower handicappers' gripe)
The second biggest criticism was that 7/8 allowance means higher handicaps lose a shot and lower handicaps do not. (higher handicappers' gripe)

 

[AliMc]

[QUOTE="ger147, post: 2506111

And I never think in terms of points, only my gross score. Has always been that way since I started playing as a youngster.[/QUOTE]
You and me both mate, it's quite obvious that we're both from Scotland, none of that points nonsense for us (except when it's a stableford comp of course although thankfully for my club anyway they are few and far between) !

 

[Deleted member 15344]

[QUOTE="ger147, post: 2506111

And I never think in terms of points, only my gross score. Has always been that way since I started playing as a youngster.

You and me both mate, it's quite obvious that we're both from Scotland, none of that points nonsense for us (except when it's a stableford comp of course although thankfully for my club anyway they are few and far between) ![/QUOTE]

I only ever concentrate on my gross score and everything else is sorted once I have finished - never tracked using Stableford points

 

[AliMc]

You and me both mate, it's quite obvious that we're both from Scotland, none of that points nonsense for us (except when it's a stableford comp of course although thankfully for my club anyway they are few and far between) !

I only ever concentrate on my gross score and everything else is sorted once I have finished - never tracked using Stableford points[/QUOTE]
Yeah I know Phil was just having a bit fun, in 50 or so years of playing golf, mostly in Scotland it has to be said, I have never come across anyone who keeps their score in points, doesn't mean it's wrong just not the done thing for us, each to their own though as long as they are enjoying themselves !

 

[Swango1980]

Not really sure why this is even really a debate, as it is clearly just down to personal preference.

Some people are used to Stableford scoring, and can track their score fairly easily as they go along. Given that Stableford effectively accounts for nett double bogey adjustments, like handicapping, it is a good simple way for a player to know how they have done (by looking at Stableford Score). The main thing they need to remember is the difference between CR and Par, and thus realising 36 points is not necessarily the "playing to handicap" target, and that it is the Stableford Score based on course handicap, not playing handicap.

Other people like to create little charts of score differentials, and some just let the computer do the work (the former option is probably not that useful, given that as soon as you enter the score on MyEG it immediately gives you the Score Diff, even though it doesn't touch your Index until the next day).

No one is wrong. If I'm out playing with mates, or even in a competition, I immediately know I've played well, average or badly based on my Stableford Score. Afterward, once my score has been submitted, I'll go onto MyEG to then get a precise look at my Score Diff (PCC=0 at this point), look at the 21st oldest score that I am losing, and then get an idea of what my Index will be the next day.

 

[wjemather]

Keeping track of gross score, to-par score or Stableford points is intuitive and what almost all golfers do, and always will do (no doubt there are a small minority who score bogey/par, or have invented their own scoring system). Assessing that performance against the Course Rating (previously SSS) requires a little knowledge but is also simple. Tracking differentials is neither intuitive nor simple, and has zero benefit when the system works it all out for you upon submitting your score.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

For me, my golf score is my total number of shots for 18 holes.

At my club, par 70 with CR 70.8 and SR 132 off the whites,

score/differential

70/-0.7
71/0.2
72/1.0
73/1.9
74/2.7
75/3.6
76/4.5
77/5.3
and so on.

Not too difficult for anyone to produce a little chart such as this for their own course and in their desired scoring range.

A great way of thinking, The guys I play with regular score 36pts and insist they have played to their handicap, when most of the time they haven't

 

[Paperboy]

In the summer always play off the Whites, good prep for the comps.

When the clocks change in Autumn the white tees are removed and only play from the yellows is allowed. Until Spring when the clocks change again. Our course is probably harder of the yellows with our 6th going from an relatively easy par 5 to a long par 4 normally into the wind.

 

[ger147]

Keeping track of gross score, to-par score or Stableford points is intuitive and what almost all golfers do, and always will do (no doubt there are a small minority who score bogey/par, or have invented their own scoring system). Assessing that performance against the Course Rating (previously SSS) requires a little knowledge but is also simple. Tracking differentials is neither intuitive nor simple, and has zero benefit when the system works it all out for you upon submitting your score.

The Scottish Golf app does not show a calculated differential after you submit your score, only the adjusted gross score. So you have to wait till the next day to see your calculated differential and as it's easy enough for me to work out (pending any PCC changes) then I do so for myself in advance of the overnight calculations.

 

[Swango1980]

The Scottish Golf app does not show a calculated differential after you submit your score, only the adjusted gross score. So you have to wait till the next day to see your calculated differential and as it's easy enough for me to work out (pending any PCC changes) then I do so for myself in advance of the overnight calculations.

Slap on the wrist for the Scottish Golf App producers

 

[ger147]

Slap on the wrist for the Scottish Golf App producers

Not at all, much better IMO for the app not to calculate a differential and display in app which is still subject to change depending on any PCC adjustment still to be made ??

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I never did stableford until I moved to England and even then in my Bristol club I don't really recall tracking stableford pts - only became a thing when I joined my current club in early 2000s.

I've realised that keeping a running tally of pts in my head gets in the way of me just playing the hole and the next shot. And so as much as I didn't really do it that much I have now totally stopped.

I need to keep me and my thinking out of the way of me playing the shot as much as possible. I just need to focus on the shot to play given what I am faced with irrespective of any other factors that my head might try and drag into, and warp, my thinking.

 

[Swango1980]

Not at all, much better IMO for the app not to calculate a differential and display in app which is still subject to change depending on any PCC adjustment still to be made ??

But not so good for this very conversation we are having. After all, we are discussing how a golfer knows how they have played once they finished the round, with some golfers using their Stableford score and others having little charts of Score Differentials. Scottish Golf must have made the decision that players do not need to know until the following day, yet this conversation contradicts this. Many golfers want to know what the impact of their round might be after the round. MyEG provides this information to the golfer. As long as the golfer caveats this by remembering the PCC may change (although it rarely does), then MyEG is incredibly useful in providing the information relevant to this discussion.

In my opinion, I am very much in favour of having the provisional Score Differential shown on the App, and would be very unhappy if they removed it.

In fact, you said: "I have charts for both differentials and playing handicaps for the 3 courses I am a member of, and as it's stored on my One Drive I have access to them on my phone should I need them"

If you believe it is much better not to calculate a differential and display it on the App, why on earth do you have charts? What purpose do they serve, assuming you are happy to wait until the following day and the information is finalised on the App?

 

[ger147]

But not so good for this very conversation we are having. After all, we are discussing how a golfer knows how they have played once they finished the round, with some golfers using their Stableford score and others having little charts of Score Differentials. Scottish Golf must have made the decision that players do not need to know until the following day, yet this conversation contradicts this. Many golfers want to know what the impact of their round might be after the round. MyEG provides this information to the golfer. As long as the golfer caveats this by remembering the PCC may change (although it rarely does), then MyEG is incredibly useful in providing the information relevant to this discussion.

In my opinion, I am very much in favour of having the provisional Score Differential shown on the App, and would be very unhappy if they removed it.

In fact, you said: "I have charts for both differentials and playing handicaps for the 3 courses I am a member of, and as it's stored on my One Drive I have access to them on my phone should I need them"

If you believe it is much better not to calculate a differential and display it on the App, why on earth do you have charts? What purpose do they serve, assuming you are happy to wait until the following day and the information is finalised on the App?

I have given my opinion above and you have given yours. It's none of your business what I use my calculations/charts for and I have no desire for you to spend the next 40 posts trying to beat my opinions to death.

I only replied to another forummer initially to point out differentials are not displayed in advance on the Scottish golf app.

Good day to you.

 

[Swango1980]

I have given my opinion above and you have given yours. It's none of your business what I use my calculations/charts for and have no desire for you to spend the next 40 posts trying to beat my opinions to death.

Good day to you.

I don't really mind what you use your calculations for. However, you were happy to post them on a public forum, so don't get touchy if someone asks what you use them for. It just seemed to completely contradict your later comment that it was a good thing Scottish Golf do not show Score Differential after the round, yet it seemed you had created your own little charts to do that very job yourself

 

[sunshine]

For me, my golf score is my total number of shots for 18 holes.

At my club, par 70 with CR 70.8 and SR 132 off the whites,

score/differential

70/-0.7
71/0.2
72/1.0
73/1.9
74/2.7
75/3.6
76/4.5
77/5.3
and so on.

Not too difficult for anyone to produce a little chart such as this for their own course and in their desired scoring range.

I find these figures useful when considering "playing to or near my handicap".

This is what I've described previously as my moving away from being a "stableford thinker" that the previous handicap system had made most of us to be.

From the outset, I set my mind to embracing the new system and I was prepared to let the new system change my thinking.

I do not dislike stableford. Most of my competition rounds at my club are stablefords.
But I no longer think of stableford as my golf score.
My golf score is my total shots for 18 holes and the resulting differential achieved.

This isn't right. What about PCC?

 

[sunshine]

This debate is starting to move to the gross v nett debate.

In my mind I think gross, in terms of pars, birdies, bogeys etc. Overall, at the end of a round I think to myself in how many over par I finished. I wouldn't ever think of it as a differential of 2.7 because that's not a real number, I didn't score 0.7 of a shot.

People who think in stableford points are thinking nett. Handicap doesn't represent how many shots I took and how well I performed, because it changes constantly (and is much more volatile since WHS). The fact is I scored 4 on a hole which is a par. Maybe that's 2 points, or is it 3 points because last week a good score dropped off my 20 so my handicap index increased by 0.2 which means my competition handicap incresed by 1 and now I get a shot at the SI4 3rd hole which I never have done before. What a complicated way to say I made par.

 

[Backsticks]

36 points is not necessarily the "playing to handicap" target, and that it is the Stableford Score based on course handicap, not playing handicap.

To judge whether you are 'playing to handicap' though, you need to know the average of your last 20 rounds, not just the best 8. I doubt anyone bother working that number out. Or do they ?

 

[BiMGuy]

This debate is starting to move to the gross v nett debate.

In my mind I think gross, in terms of pars, birdies, bogeys etc. Overall, at the end of a round I think to myself in how many over par I finished. I wouldn't ever think of it as a differential of 2.7 because that's not a real number, I didn't score 0.7 of a shot.

People who think in stableford points are thinking nett. Handicap doesn't represent how many shots I took and how well I performed, because it changes constantly (and is much more volatile since WHS). The fact is I scored 4 on a hole which is a par. Maybe that's 2 points, or is it 3 points because last week a good score dropped off my 20 so my handicap index increased by 0.2 which means my competition handicap incresed by 1 and now I get a shot at the SI4 3rd hole which I never have done before. What a complicated way to say I made par.

This all day long. I have a particular dislike for stableford scoring.

Golf should be about shooting the lowest score, or beating your opponent in match play. Stableford is for the weak minded who can’t cope with the pressure of having to count every shot, or melt at the first sign of bad hole. ?

 

[Swango1980]

To judge whether you are 'playing to handicap' though, you need to know the average of your last 20 rounds, not just the best 8. I doubt anyone bother working that number out. Or do they ?

I don't understand. Why would you need to know the average of your last 20 rounds, when your handicap is the average of your best 8 out of last 20?