What is a fair suspension ?

[backwoodsman]

By promoting their business to a large group of like minded well to do people.
Financial adviser, builder/trades, car/home/ insurance sales etc. etc etc.
Lots of business done on the golf course I am told.

You'll need to be more specific - as I'll need to make some notes. For my friend, that is

 

[Robster59]

By promoting their business to a large group of like minded well to do people.
Financial adviser, builder/trades, car/home/ insurance sales etc. etc etc.
Lots of business done on the golf course I am told.

I must have missed something during my stint. Everything was done for the benefit of the club and getting the best value for them.

 

[jim8flog]

I have served my suspension all 3 months of it.In full. I am going to court on there refusal to issue the legal advice they claim to have . As a members club we are entitled to see this. I am also going to court over being forced to pay fees whilst suspended which we believe to be illegal as is the suspension as it was meted out by what everyone even the club now agree was a unfair process.

I play at a members club but the club is split in to two legal entities

1. A limited Company run by directors which we vote in, which handles all affairs of finance, a large amount of which is not divulged to the members other than in the end of year accounts.
2. A golf club run for the members benefit which does not have any say in the financial affairs.

Before going any further you really need to look at all the club's constitution papers, Articles of Association (if applicable) and the club's Rules and Regulations. There is no point in suing them if they can simply point to the club's rules and they are following them.

 

[jim8flog]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

A.

Search the threads and you will find one on that specific topic.

 

[jim8flog]

Good question. Another issue we have is club is both. A limited company and an unincorporated club. This isn't really feasible and certainly not advisable. .

Not what our club's solicitors advised us.

They did however completely rewrite our Articles of Association and suggest various alterations to our Rules and Regs.

 

[jim8flog]

A member sued my club after she fell over and broke her wrist. It was in january when the course was frozen, obviously she knew the risks, but the club was advised to settle out of court as it had a duty of care to golfers. This was several years ago and she is still a member.

So maybe our freedom fighter can safely reintegrate himself into the club once he has won or lost his crusade. Vive la revolution!

There is a difference there, the club would be insured and it would/should have been referred to the insurers . here have been several members who have claimed against the club for personal injury where I play.

 

[Blue in Munich]

I play at a members club but the club is split in to two legal entities

1. A limited Company run by directors which we vote in, which handles all affairs of finance, a large amount of which is not divulged to the members other than in the end of year accounts.
2. A golf club run for the members benefit which does not have any say in the financial affairs.

Before going any further you really need to look at all the club's constitution papers, Articles of Association (if applicable) and the club's Rules and Regulations. There is no point in suing them if they can simply point to the club's rules and they are following them.

IIRC, the OP stated that the club, or an official/officer of the club, have admitted this is not fit for purpose.

 

[Neil Grice]

A question on this. Where you objecting to the principle of paying the money during lockdown or the fact that you didn't like the reason? If the former, well there a big thread one this in the forum somewhere so I won't up that debate but if the latter it seems a strange way for the club to get members to pay. Our club has been very open throughout it and most members stayed and paid as the course still needed to be maintained.

I didn't mind paying fees during lock down if it was shown the club needed the money ( they really don't) was annoyed as were many by the arrogant way the club demanded money and gave no indication that there was room for debate or discussion. Felt to a lot of us that it was a little intimidating

 

[Neil Grice]

IIRC, the OP stated that the club, or an official/officer of the club, have admitted this is not fit for purpose.

IIRC, the OP stated that the club, or an official/officer of the club, have admitted this is not fit for purpose.

we have looked into it in great detail. There is nothing in the constitution that protects the club at all. I am sure they wish there was

 

[KenL]

I didn't mind paying fees during lock down if it was shown the club needed the money ( they really don't) was annoyed as were many by the arrogant way the club demanded money and gave no indication that there was room for debate or discussion. Felt to a lot of us that it was a little intimidating

Am I missing something? You join a club for a year's membership. Gov closed the course for 2 months and you want money off.
If it snowed and was closed for a month, would you want money back then?

 

[Mandofred]

Am I missing something? You join a club for a year's membership. Gov closed the course for 2 months and you want money off.
If it snowed and was closed for a month, would you want money back then?

To be fair, plenty of people expressed that view when the thread on this debate was top of the hit parade...
I think most felt like you though regarding a members club, ie all members should pull together.
Maybe different at a proprietary venue where members haven't felt valued though.

The only problem I really had was that I paid the whole fee at the beginning of March (April is the new term). A lot of people were waiting until the end of March to pay, and of course they didn't have to re-up since there was no reason to if you weren't playing. A whole lot of these people did not pay during the closed down time. I don't want to have to pay, so that other people don't have to. If we are ALL in it together....fair enough. We were supposedly given the chance to either get that money back, or we could count it off on next years fees (which is fine with me).

 

[Robster59]

I didn't mind paying fees during lock down if it was shown the club needed the money ( they really don't) was annoyed as were many by the arrogant way the club demanded money and gave no indication that there was room for debate or discussion. Felt to a lot of us that it was a little intimidating

If your club doesn't need the money then they're in a fortunate position as a lot of clubs were very concerned over finances and needed that money over the lockdown. No income from visitors, people using the clubhouse,etc. has a big impact on the club and the bills, and non-furloughed staff still have to be paid in that time. The course has to be maintained and kept in good condition for when the lockdown finished. I know a lot of work was done behind the scenes by the Board of Management, Captain and Vice Captain, Club Manager, Council, etc. (all unpaid except for the club manager). All that work was done quietly and efficiently behind the scenes. Nobody made a big fuss about doing it, they just did it for the club. Not for any personal benefit of kudos.

At our club, most people respected that and supported the club by keeping their contributions coming in. The club kept us aware of the financial position and even kept the members updated with current and forecast accounts during that period. They left it up to the decisions of the individual members as to what they wanted to do. When we came out, they offered some options on a show of appreciation in terms of financial recompense. Again the members could take it or, if they didn't, the money would go towards the course. I think over half the members went for that option.

Maybe the club hasn't acted in the best way, but in all honestly, do you think you have? Or are you now just pursuing a crusade?

 

[Swango1980]

If your club doesn't need the money then they're in a fortunate position as a lot of clubs were very concerned over finances and needed that money over the lockdown. No income from visitors, people using the clubhouse,etc. has a big impact on the club and the bills and staff still have to be paid in that time. The course has to be maintained and kept in good condition for when the lockdown finished. I know a lot of work was done behind the scenes by the Board of Management, Captain and Vice Captain, Club Manager, Council, etc. (all unpaid except for the club manager). All that work was done quietly and efficiently behind the scenes. Nobody made a big fuss about doing it, they just did it for the club. Not for any personal benefit of kudos.
At our club, most people respected that and supported the club by keeping their contributions coming in. The club kept us aware of the financial position and even kept the members updated with current and forecast accounts during that period. They left it up to the decisions of the individual members as to what they wanted to do. When we came out, they offered some options on a show of appreciation in terms of financial recompense. Again the members could take it or if they didn't the money would go towards the course. I think over half the members went for that option.
Maybe the club hasn't acted in the best way, but in all honestly, do you think you have? Or are you now just pursuing a crusade?

That's a good response. Although golf clubs would have got some / all money back on wages through furlough, there'd still be costs associated with keeping it maintained and other bills they need to take care off. No longer getting any income from visitors, pro shop, food and drink, etc and then some members may also be asking / demanding refunds.

So, it begs the question that, if a members club really didn't need the money, that would imply they have plenty of reserves. If they had plenty of reserves, there'd come a point where, before Covid came along, members might be asking why they are not spending a lot of these reserves on the course. I appreciate you want some reserve, but before February / March, how many members would have demanded their clubs held enough reserves to cope with a worldwide pandemic where golf would be completely banned for 2/3 months? It's a genuine question, I'm not a member of a members club, so the Owner of our club is responsible for the finances.

 

[Neilds]

I am absolutely adamant that the clubs side should be heard before decisions are made. I named the club in the hope of getting some feedback as currently my dispute is being hushed up and i suspect many members don't know the club is being sued. The club are currently refusing to even confirm my ban will be lifted as at 1st Oct when it is up.

You say here your ban is up on 1 Oct, but in a later post you say that you have served your ban in full. Both cannot be true so how can we be sure your side Of the story is totally factual and correct?

 

[Sats]

The clubs sounds like it's filled and run by investment bankers. It's a golf club not a company you work for - stick the disciplinary and stick the club where the sun doesn't shine. I'd go elsewhere. Mind you I don't get involved in club politics - and during the lockdown I paid my DD as I was fortunate to still be working as my thoughts were i wanted a club to come back to.

 

[OnTour]

You sign up you pay up simples. I never signed my renewal after being closed for 5 months just paid monthly if it's shut this year I'll just stop the transaction and move on. 5 months shut then covid lockdown pretty much 6 months membership in the end.

AS for getting banned pretty sure they don't just ban people for nothing!

 

[Bermuda]

Given what's happened surely you would prefer to just join elsewhere and start over?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I must have missed something during my stint. Everything was done for the benefit of the club and getting the best value for them.

Unfortunately not all think the same as you.
You are in the good 33%.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

You'll need to be more specific - as I'll need to make some notes. For my friend, that is

A friend was the owner of a couple of big local Rover/Jaguar car dealerships.
He joined the club but played little golf.
His company generously sponsored a big annual tournament. [Impressive smart display of cars at the club for a weekend.]
Sold lots of cars to club members as he was regarded as a good trustworthy member.

 

[MrGrumtastic]

A friend was the owner of a couple of big local Rover/Jaguar car dealerships.
He joined the club but played little golf.
His company generously sponsored a big annual tournament. [Impressive smart display of cars at the club for a weekend.]
Sold lots of cars to club members as he was regarded as a good trustworthy member.

Is that not the entire point of sponsoring a tournament?